[WEC] LMP Future Regulations (was Le Mans EVO rules - now hypercar rules)

[carbsmith]

Originally Posted by joeb

Yes he basically said that the class won't be spec, you can develop things, but you can't be too good at developing things.

I have no idea what this looks like practically. Does the ACO/FIA confiscate motors periodically to check power levels? Mandatory wind tunnel tests? Inspecting the accounting Dept?

Not horribly differently to how it works in the GT classes, necessarily. Homologate the car once and check none of the parts have changed. Just with less room for BoP politics because everyone has the same type of car. There's those torque sensors the FIA wanted to use in GT3 and GTE though.

Aero matching was an inevitability of any road car styling rules, unfortunately. Anyone who was excited for that and expecting otherwise was naive.

[Deleted]

“Next year it will be quieter I’m sure. If I wasn’t doing Le Mans I’d have loads of time off, but I couldn’t say no. The regulations will be changing in 2020 and I wanted to drive these cars at Le Mans before they slow them down a little bit. I don’t think it matters, though, because the racing will still be great, but it’s nice to come here while the cars are at their best, at their fastest.”

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/b...bout-br1-pace/

Guess that's interesting viewpoint even if not really something most people are primarily worried about in these new regs

[chernaudi]

Unless engine power gets a bump, the LMP1s may be slower because the current cars are very dependent on hybrid power for performance, and the new rules propose a 5MJ hybrid limit, about half of what the max limit is now.

And if I may get on a soapbox for a moment. I was watching Le Mans 2006 on You Tube when I was struck by how the ACO tried to develop at least theoretical performance incentives to run diesels, ethanol fueled cars and ultimately hybrids.

I guess I can understand why the ACO tried to give performance incentives to those cars, especially hybrids. It was to show that hybrids, diesels, etc weren't just stodgy commoners' cars. They could be fast and sexy.

My issue with doing so is that did sort of defeat the purpose of why in the real world people buy such cars. It's not performance, but saving money at the gas pump.

So I've wondered what things would've been like if instead of being a "go faster button" if such technology was balanced in terms of performance but still allowed a stint advantage instead?

[GasperG]

But we are seeing hybrids and electric more and more in performance road cars, so apparently something is changing and it's not just saving money.

It was said many times that more hybrid power would only mean longer stint, but somehow in the end this was newer the case.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by GasperG

But we are seeing hybrids and electric more and more in performance road cars, so apparently something is changing and it's not just saving money.

This is, in all seriousness, the only reason it is at all possible to have hybrid systems that could be cost-effective. There's been enough development that all-out balls-to-the-wall insanely highly developed systems are not the only way to go.

But it's also still a relatively new technology and the slightest misstep in designing the regulations WILL cause the whole plan to backfire.

It was said many times that more hybrid power would only mean longer stint, but somehow in the end this was newer the case.

That was more because of the ACO's fuel limits ensuring relatively equal stint lengths than anything else. No fuel restrictions, and you'd have seen a VERY notable difference in the stint lengths.

[TF110]

The ACO said they want the speeds to stay as they are now, which is sub 3:20 race pace. I don't know why Button said "before they slow them down". Even with 5mj, the cars will still be mega fast with all the know-how that's been learned. Plus more engine power than now seems to be on the table too.

[chernaudi]

I hope so (more engine power to make up for hybrid power cut), because if LMP1 gets slowed with how much the LMP2s have been sped up, I fear a knock on effect of slowing down every class.

Mind you, and I know that this opinion will probably not be popular, but I wouldn't mind seeing a few seconds a lap taken out of the cars in all classes. If nothing else it might cut down on accidents or at least the severity of them. But I'm also fine with things they way they are.

However, I do remain doubtful that we'll be breaking any distance records anytime very soon with all the slow zones, FCYs and pace car situations that LM has had in recent years.

[Aysedasi]

As well as 1 hour pit stops...…

[Deleted]

The need to refuel more often than in the past will also decrease the pace.

[tomerswayler]

Originally Posted by Chiana

The need to refuel more often than in the past will also decrease the pace.

How have stint lengths at Le Mans developed over the last decades? I assume that in the earlier years the tank size wasn't limited and the size was an optimization problem where stint length had to be weighed against the average weight as more fuel slows a car down.

[Sodemo]

I'd be geninely interested in seeing how a road car would go around LeMans for 24H. Obviously it would have to have a roll cage and slicks etc, but it would be fun to watch say a Kia Sportage do 24H.

[Deleted]

You would have to ask Truswell about the evolution of stint lengths

As for road cars around Le Mans... meh I wouldn't want that, there are already too many 24h races for that kind of thing already. And it would be horribly slow even to GTE

Fully robotic car for Garage 56, that would be interesting though.

[Aysedasi]

There was of course talk a few years back now in one of the sportscar 'doldrum' periods of opening it up to touring cars - at which point my run of Le Mans attendances could well have come to an end.....!

[Deleted]

Touring cars are perfectly fine as bottom classification at Spa 24 (instead of that boring all GT3-grid) or Nurburgring but not here

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I'd be geninely interested in seeing how a road car would go around LeMans for 24H. Obviously it would have to have a roll cage and slicks etc, but it would be fun to watch say a Kia Sportage do 24H.

Head to California this December and catch the 25 Hours of Thunderhill. Plenty of that going on there.

[tomerswayler]

For 1975, it seems there has been a 20 lap limit for refuelling in the rules.

http://www.experiencelemans.com/cont...s_Results.html

Edit: That's a MINIMUM stint length according to https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/d...-mans-24-hours

[chernaudi]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

As well as 1 hour pit stops...…

Aside from it being to balance performance with EOT, taking away so much fuel/range doesn't make any sense to me. These cars are supposed to go further on less fuel, but 40 or so minute stints don't showcase that. DPIs in IMSA also only can go that far at best on fuel.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Chiana

The need to refuel more often than in the past will also decrease the pace.

But the time spent in the pits will be severely reduced with the faster refueling by Toyota and the fact they can change tires at the same time. I wonder how much they increase the fuel allowance for the new cars.

[carbsmith]

The longer you make the stint lengths the more the non-hybrid cars suffer from carrying heavier fuel loads. Even with short stints, doing 1 less lap on 64% more fuel per lap translates into almost 50% more fuel per stint, which is 17.4kg. If you made the stints 1/3 longer then the privateers are carrying around another extra 6kg for most of the race.

From what I remember last year everyone was complaining that the LMP2s had shorter fuel stints than LMP1 to keep them further away.

[chernaudi]

LMP2s had 35-40 minute stints like the DPIs in IMSA do, and now LMP1s, hybrid or not, can only go about as far.

Kinda makes me miss the days of when Audi R8s could do 13-14 laps at LM, and in '06 when the Audi R10s were doing 15 lap stints. Even Pescarolo that year was easily doing 13 lap stints. Of course, those cars had 90 liter fuel tanks vs the much smaller fuel tanks now.

[deggis]

So the 2020 presentation is today 10:00 local time (CET).

There might a be stream on some of the ACO's websites or social media sites. Maybe here.

[deggis]

...more likely here as the 2017 one was here.

[Juntos]

Originally Posted by deggis

So the 2020 presentation is today 10:00 local time (CET).

We have to be prepared for this press conference. Don't let today's disappointments cast a shadow on tomorrow's dreams.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Juntos

We have to be prepared for this press conference. Don't let today's disappointments cast a shadow on tomorrow's dreams.

Why so negative in every post? I'm not disappointed in today. 10 lmp1's vs 4 last year is nothing to be disappointed at. Maybe even more show up with the new rules.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by TF110

Why so negative in every post? I'm not disappointed in today. 10 lmp1's vs 4 last year is nothing to be disappointed at. Maybe even more show up with the new rules.

Not to mention that no matter how good or bad the rules sound there's no point in being optimistic or disappointed since it'll take at least another year to start getting a good read on how big or small the manufacturer interest will be.

The chances of there being any immediate commitments or having a bunch of manufacturers immediately denounce the new rules are pretty slim, after all.

Whatever the rules are, we'll probably hear a bunch of PR speak that boils down to "we're taking a close look and will decide later."