The Future Of Rallycross

[chunder]

Was not completely sure of teh class structure in France, but its clear they ahve no real interest in racing in Europe, but then theya re French and the French often like to be different so no surprises there!!

ice to see the likes of Anne having a go though, maybe got fed up with racing on same tracks and his results have been notably decent, OK with top level equipment.

[leonidas]

There's something to be said for Britain and Ireland following the French class structure for the main national championship - at least D1, D2 and D4. It's shown to work, it produces a variety of cars on the track and it would allow domestic drivers to compete in neighbouring national championships before launching a full ERC assault.

Does the French championship still get manufacturer support for some categories? It certain used to a couple of years ago.

[zac510]

edit.. answered my own question

[Chessmsport]

Originally Posted by leonidas

There's something to be said for Britain and Ireland following the French class structure for the main national championship - at least D1, D2 and D4. It's shown to work, it produces a variety of cars on the track and it would allow domestic drivers to compete in neighbouring national championships before launching a full ERC assault.

That would make nearly all the Supermodified cars illegal as all D4 cars are steel shelled and D2 is being dropped from the ERC and France is the only country to run this class.

[rx-guru]

Originally Posted by Chessmsport

D2 is being dropped from the ERC and France is the only country to run this class.

After the unexpected renaissance of the Group N category in the 2007 ERC I do not expect any longer that D2 will be dropped soon.

[rx-guru]

Originally Posted by silver bullet

Finally Europe. What is the chance of the ERC coming to the UK? There is some concern that the increase from a 10, to a 12 round championship may not be a good thing. That's 12 rounds without the UK, so if the ERC was to come to Britain that would be 13 rounds. That is never going to happen. The only chance the UK would have would be if some other countries dropped out, or rounds were rotated.

Finland has already dropped its plans to re-join the ERC in 2008. There are 11 rounds on the provisional (!) calendar by now, incl. re-joining Germany. According to FIA ORC president Andy Lasure Peter Stott has applied straight to the FIA ORC to make Croft round no 12. I still wonder, and nobody confirmed yet, if PS had backing of the MSA – as the FIA deals only with the ASN of each country in the first place.

[PhergAthor]

Originally Posted by rx-guru

After the unexpected renaissance of the Group N category in the 2007 ERC I do not expect any longer that D2 will be dropped soon.

The interview with a top-FFSA guy mentiones the change of D2 into D1a after 2009, this also being the date whispered in the ERC to dismiss the D2 class. The interview can be seen between the other video's of Chris Courteyn on his site. (hope you understand French)

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by rx-guru

I still wonder, and nobody confirmed yet, if PS had backing of the MSA – as the FIA deals only with the ASN of each country in the first place.

This weeks MN says that at the moment the approach is unofficial and that currently it is not backed by the MSA (although the MSA have been contacted to request backing). A formal application needs to be made by the 11th of September.

[rx-guru]

Originally Posted by PhergAthor

The interview with a top-FFSA guy mentiones the change of D2 into D1a after 2009, this also being the date whispered in the ERC to dismiss the D2 class. The interview can be seen between the other video's of Chris Courteyn on his site. (hope you understand French)

Only FIA, not caring about FFSA: The original intention was to replace the D2 cars for 2008 by the RX Cup cars. With the new idea they would have 2 more years time. However, nobody knows yet if the end of 2009 will be the end of D2…

[Roundy Mooney]

Guru could you clarify something for me. I had been told that the reason many of the scandanvians hadn't taken to RX cup because you couldn't use a live axle on the back but having seen the fiesta it has a solid back axle arrangement. Is it that you can only use a ford axle ie an Atlas on a ford and that this rule restrics the manufactures you can use ?

[rx-guru]

Did you know the below interview?

"Imported" from ERC24 with permission:

The first champion
Posted 16.08.2007 20:51:22 by Tim Whittington
“Billy No Mates” will complete the season
News no 622: By finishing two heats and qualifying for the rallycross Cup final in round seven of the European Rallycross Championship at Maasmechelen last weekend, Jos Sterkens became the inaugural Rallycross Cup champion. For the Belgian driver winning the title on his home track was specially sweet.

“It’s very nice to win here, but I would really like to have some more competition,” said Sterkens who has been the standard bearer for the new rear-wheel drive class in its first year. “I believe in the class, the cars are good and where there have been other cars the competition is already good – in Sweden and Norway the race was good and I hope that there will be some competition in Poland.”

Sterkens has been the pioneer in the class and has also spent a lot of time explaining the rules to would be competitors. “A lot of Scandinavian drivers don’t understand the regulations. When I went to scrutineering in Norway they put my car on a ramp and lifted it up in the air. Immediately there were 20 or 30 people underneath it looking at all the details, specially the axle. The chassis rules are the same as for Division One, but not many understand that. If Scandinavian drivers think you cannot use a live axle they think you cannot build a good car, but you can use an axle, you just have to think a little about how it is fixed,” said Sterkens who says he will complete the remaining ERC rounds even though he has won the title. “I want to do all the races. I will use them for testing and also to make sure that everyone can see what the cars are like,” he said. “We have two gearboxes in my Fiesta now, one at the back which is the real gearbox and one at the front which we have modified. The front one allows me to select and high or low range of gears depending on how fast each track is. My plan is to continue testing and developing the car so that if I do not win next year it will only be my fault.”

So far in the 2007 ERC four cars have started in the Rallycross Cup. Austrian racer Michael Stoklassa drove his BMW in Hungary, Austria and Sweden, the latter event also seeing the first appearance of Norwegian Hans Kristian Ask’s Fiesta. At the Norwegian ERC round there were again three starters, Sterkens and Ask joined by Cato Endersen’s Peugeot 207. Rallycross Cup cars are now permitted within the Supernational category in Norway and growth in the class there is expected next year.

[Roundy Mooney]

Thank You. The two gearboxes sounds intresting any pictures ?

[leonidas]

Anyone know how many more Cup cars are planned? I can't see how they can seriously consider phasing out D2 unless they've a regular grid of a dozen Cup cars. This sort of uncertainty about classes doesn't do the sport any good - it just means people are reluctant to invest in either of the categories.

On the British supermodified issue: You are not going to get people bringing out Euro-reg cars in Britain unless an organiser bites the bullet and says supermodified will be relegated (say by 2009) to a clubman class and that from a certain date the main championship class will be for Euro-compliant cars only.

[rx-guru]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

This weeks MN says that at the moment the approach is unofficial and that currently it is not backed by the MSA (although the MSA have been contacted to request backing). A formal application needs to be made by the 11th of September.

The FIA ORC president has confirmed now that the MSA has made an official and correct application for a 2008 ERC round at Croft.

[BertMk2]

Excellent news

[RICKY_BOBBY]

I Hope Im Not About Say Something Really Stupid Here But Dont Some Of The Other Countries Who Currently Hold Rounds Of The Erc Have Very Strong National Classes That Are Not Erc Classes E.g. Sweden - Supernational And France Has The Class For Ice Racer Type Things Called Division 3 (i Think). Was Just Wondering Why We Have To Consider Giving Up One Of Our Most Popular Classes Super Modified So That We Can Have A Round Of The Erc. I Think If A Brit Driver Wants To Build A Erc Car Then They Will But We Shouldnt Be Forced To Build One So We Can Hold An Erc Round. I Will Apologise If I Have Upset Anyone Or If I Have Not Fully Understood Some Of The Previous Posts P,s Iam Massive Supporter Of Having An Erc Round Here And All Things Rallycross!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bestrep]

Originally Posted by rx-guru

After the unexpected renaissance of the Group N category in the 2007 ERC I do not expect any longer that D2 will be dropped soon.

If I read this correctly then the ERC is an advocate of give the customer what they want!!. I AGREE!!. If If I Want to race in a LUREX race suit let me. The BRSCC said do as we say, and look where it got them in Rallycross!. Anybody for a rallycross drivers union perhaps??.

[Cal Naughton Jr]

Not been funny but i still remember what drew me to rallycross about 10 years ago after dragging my father the lengh and bredth of the country watching everything from truck racing to touring cars, a Karcha sponsored mondeo barrel rolling off the start of a heat at Brands in to the first corner.
The cars were spectacular to look at, the noise was amazing and the racing unbaalevible.

I for one belive we have a really good championship with the BRDA and some excellent rounds with ROC which is getting stronger year on year, both have good feeder classes and genraly spot on feild of supermods and super cars what needs to be improved is the image of the sport throughout the motorsport comunity /press and spectators should we focus on that before looking to change what really isnt broken?.


RALLYCROSS ROCKS!!

[Matti Alamaki]

Originally Posted by RICKY_BOBBY

I Hope Im Not About Say Something Really Stupid Here But Dont Some Of The Other Countries Who Currently Hold Rounds Of The Erc Have Very Strong National Classes That Are Not Erc Classes E.g. Sweden - Supernational And France Has The Class For Ice Racer Type Things Called Division 3 (i Think). Was Just Wondering Why We Have To Consider Giving Up One Of Our Most Popular Classes Super Modified So That We Can Have A Round Of The Erc. I Think If A Brit Driver Wants To Build A Erc Car Then They Will But We Shouldnt Be Forced To Build One So We Can Hold An Erc Round. I Will Apologise If I Have Upset Anyone Or If I Have Not Fully Understood Some Of The Previous Posts P,s Iam Massive Supporter Of Having An Erc Round Here And All Things Rallycross!!!!!!!!!!!!

The most successful countries of European Rallycross, Sweden & France (Probably!) both have their own classes. But, they both also have strong Dvision 2 & 1A classes. This allows their Junior drivers compete in Europe. The way forward if you ask me, this system caters for everyone. I believe Ireland are to introduce Divsion 2.

[leonidas]

Originally Posted by rx-guru

The FIA ORC president has confirmed now that the MSA has made an official and correct application for a 2008 ERC round at Croft.

The best news I've read on this board for a long time!! Let's keep our fingers crossed...

[PhergAthor]

Originally Posted by RICKY_BOBBY

I Hope Im Not About Say Something Really Stupid Here But Dont Some Of The Other Countries Who Currently Hold Rounds Of The Erc Have Very Strong National Classes That Are Not Erc Classes E.g. Sweden - Supernational And France Has The Class For Ice Racer Type Things Called Division 3 (i Think). Was Just Wondering Why We Have To Consider Giving Up One Of Our Most Popular Classes Super Modified So That We Can Have A Round Of The Erc. I Think If A Brit Driver Wants To Build A Erc Car Then They Will But We Shouldnt Be Forced To Build One So We Can Hold An Erc Round. I Will Apologise If I Have Upset Anyone Or If I Have Not Fully Understood Some Of The Previous Posts P,s Iam Massive Supporter Of Having An Erc Round Here And All Things Rallycross!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are not saying anything stupid as most national championships have some sort of unique national class. Supermodified is not an issue, its a good class, and if RX grows into one of the more popular motorsports in the UK it can turn out to be an equaly popular class as the supernationals.
If anyone speaks of modifying the class-structure to ERC, they mostly want to say to include D1a (and maybe D2) and the RX-cup, not to abbolish any of the existing classes. And surely it is an option to run the cup-cars in the supermodified class as long as there is no full grid of cup-cars.
Note that e.g. Norway does not have 1 ERC-class in there national championship, but none the less they are very succesfull in the ERC. Their D1a cars run in the -1600cc supernationals, the RX-cup cars can run in class2 (+1600/-2000cc) and the top-class is class3 supernational. Norwegians with a D1/supercar run only in the ERC or run in Hillclimb events.
So it's not purely the classes to look at, it's more important to have a class were ERC-legal cars can compete in that matters.

[leonidas]

Sorry but I just don't agree that British supermodified is a good class. There is some great machinery in supermodified but the class itself produces some of the most predictable racing there is. It is dominated by one car which at some meetings has finished more than 10 seconds ahead of everything else. At one meeting it was almost 5 seconds a lap quicker.

It doesn't produce a big field - at Knockhill there were only 8 cars and at Lydden (traditionally the most popular meeting) there were only 10.

It doesn't promote progression through the ranks. Very few drivers step up from stock hatch as the costs are high to be anywhere near competitive - Chris Evans supposedly spent more on his Micra than top Europeans on Div.1a cars.

Would European regs make progression easier? Probably as there is a big pool of second hand cars on the international market, a lot of existing set-up expertise with the common models and a stable re-sale market.

You can, of course, race Euro-spec cars in supermodified but why would anyone give themselves this handicap? It wouldn't be worth it just to do the odd European round. I'm not saying scrap supermodified tomorrow but unless organisers signal that British rallycross intends to phase in European classes in over say, the next three years, and make them the leading MSA classes I can't see many rushing to build or buy European spec cars.

[chunder]

I agree with leo about the Super Mod class, there have been some very clever cars int he class in recent years notably the TT, but most of the cars in the class are really rather specialized and expensive.

And the sad thing is they are all miles behind the winner which is making a mockery of the racing, but then even in Formula B days I think the class was fairly pricey, yes you could just stick a lightweight bodykit on a BDA Mk2 or drop a G3 kit over it, but those days are gone and cars have to be made or created more now.

The Micra was insane and in reality Bellerby probly only went the Lotus route to beat that, remember his Nova was pretty serious aswell, and sound like he wont be in the clas for long anyway.

As regards replacements, our car culture doesnt really lend itself to Supernational and those cars are very expensive, even more so over here coz it would all have to be imported, S1600 is an awful class where the cars again are silly money. so where do you go?

Group N?
A similar to Supernational spec using certain engines and trannies?