[BTCC] BTCC 2020 season discussion, News and Rumours!

[GT6]

We all might have aspirations that we could be racing drivers but in reality only a few can do it well and a few have enough money to do it at the top level even if they perhaps lack the raw talent to get other people to pay them to race. But we sometimes get events that can make drivers with less talent win, but surprises in racing are always exciting to watch.

[thetool]

Having racing experience is not a prerequisite to being able to critically assess a drivers performance.

The entire point of the sport is a competition to determine the best driver/team/car combination in any given year.

If drivers should not be criticised for poor performance by anyone other than those with comparable experience, then it follows that they should also not be lauded for good performances.

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by GT6

We all might have aspirations that we could be racing drivers but in reality only a few can do it well and a few have enough money to do it at the top level even if they perhaps lack the raw talent to get other people to pay them to race. But we sometimes get events that can make drivers with less talent win, but surprises in racing are always exciting to watch.

so if you buy toilet paper from certain brand and it's too soft or too hard or has some other issues you can't critisize it unless you are in the toilet paper business yourself ?

[Pdh]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

is there any worse driver than Neate on the current grid ?

What’s the criteria to make a driver worse or better than neate

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by Pdh

What’s the criteria to make a driver worse or better than neate

slow and crashing into other drivers

[crmalcolm]

Crees was the subject of rumours recently.
He's taking over the BTCC Instagram tomorrow. Maybe he'll be asked about those rumours?

https://twitter.com/BTCC/status/1278...859567616?s=19

Or should we take the chance to criticise other drivers instead?

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I didn't realise Neate was connected to WSR/Jordan?

Only in a BTCC thread can the news about one driver's withdrawal be turned into a driver-bashing of someone totally unrelated to the announcement.

I can't see anything wrong with this, it's not bashing Neate, it's stating the fact, which someone rightly called a very old - money. No one tries to bully Neate, definitely not me, but at the same time it's sad that top drivers in BTCC are not paid and even those with multiple wins and titles can't be 100% professionals.
It's great that Neate is racing because this is probably his passion, he loves doing it and can afford it. But BTCC is theoretically a top-level championship and it's sad to see top drivers go because of lack of budget, while such drivers like Neate stay - and it's not bashing him, it's just true that he's in a different league than Turkington or Jordan or Plato.

[Pdh]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

slow and crashing into other drivers

So if he doesn’t crash and beats other driver how bad will they be in your eyes

[S griffin]

I don’t mind having a paying driver in a top seat if there two top drivers in the other seats, like Crees is at a BTC. It does no harm, it means that driver is helping the other two by bringing the budget in and the other two can get the best results available

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by GT6

We all might have aspirations that we could be racing drivers but in reality only a few can do it well and a few have enough money to do it at the top level even if they perhaps lack the raw talent to get other people to pay them to race. But we sometimes get events that can make drivers with less talent win, but surprises in racing are always exciting to watch.

This is so true; driving to Tesco is a doddle. And these Charlies on the race track only have another 30 idiots to get in the way, not hundreds or thousands. And they're all going in the same direction, so that's a bit safer. No stupid road signs or traffic signals, no greaty big pot holes, blind men on bikes or the gas board digging up holes. They've got it easy! Driving to Tesco is way harder.

In all seriousness, there will always be different talent levels. The Ayrton Senna's of the world are one in a generation. Others are down a peg and continue descending through the field.

My ambition ended after a rather splendid RS500 I made a bad misjudgement in ended up being recycled into baked beans cans. I thankfully avoided being worm food. A late great Scotsman once told me I gave it 100% all the time. The problem was 99% of that was enthusiasm and only 1% talent. He had a point.

[RS67]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

so if you buy toilet paper from certain brand and it's too soft or too hard or has some other issues you can't critisize it unless you are in the toilet paper business yourself ?

No it just means like the toilet paper, you're full of,,,,,,,,

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Matt K

I can't see anything wrong with this, it's not bashing Neate, it's stating the fact, which someone rightly called a very old - money.

If it's not bashing Neate - why did his name have to mentioned at all?

I'm not against criticising drivers - as and when they do something that could be criticised. I just don't see how it is relevant to a discussion about Jordan's withdrawal to name one other driver out of the remaining 28 who (apart from Turkington) did not match Jordan's record last season.

If it is a criticism of the system (where money outweighs talent) then criticise the system, not a sole driver for taking advantage of it?

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

If it's not bashing Neate - why did his name have to mentioned at all?

are we in the "no names, no faces, no numbers" thing ?

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

If it's not bashing Neate - why did his name have to mentioned at all?

I'm not against criticising drivers - as and when they do something that could be criticised. I just don't see how it is relevant to a discussion about Jordan's withdrawal to name one other driver out of the remaining 28 who (apart from Turkington) did not match Jordan's record last season.

If it is a criticism of the system (where money outweighs talent) then criticise the system, not a sole driver for taking advantage of it?

It's not criticizing Neate, it's just mentioning him as a perfect example of what you called a system. Neate is, let's face it, the most suitable example for this. It may be right or wrong but there were few (if any) happy to see him back so mentioning his name against Jordan simply serves its purpose.

[RS67]

Originally Posted by Matt K

It's not criticizing Neate, it's just mentioning him as a perfect example of what you called a system. Neate is, let's face it, the most suitable example for this. It may be right or wrong but there were few (if any) happy to see him back so mentioning his name against Jordan simply serves its purpose.

Looking at Neates placings for BTCC races finished, he has 17 top 10 finishes. Just 3 finishes outside of the top 20, most of his finishes are inside the top 15. He finished 12th, 13 times and pretty much sums up his average finishing position, highest finishes were 6th twice and 7th twice. Hardly the finishing record of a slow driver.

[S griffin]

The problem with Neate is his racecraft. He's too flaky under pressure and never knows when he's beaten in a corner

[RS67]

Originally Posted by S griffin

The problem with Neate is his racecraft. He's too flaky under pressure and never knows when he's beaten in a corner

Only once could he be termed flaky under pressure. He was leading at Brands Hatch and Plato was on his tail. As for not conceding a corner when beaten, no race driver wants to just give up a corner without a fight.
I can only think of one coming together with another driver and it wasn't really his fault, more a case of Jordan forgot the rear wheels of his Vectra were at a ludicrous camber, protruding outside the bodywork and clipped Neate as he overtook.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by RS67

I can only think of one coming together with another driver and it wasn't really his fault, more a case of Jordan forgot the rear wheels of his Vectra were at a ludicrous camber, protruding outside the bodywork and clipped Neate as he overtook.

I guess we could rewrite the original post as:

'so a dangerous driver like Jordan is gone and whereas a driver with more reliable funds like Neate stays, what a terrible world' ?


Or more sensibly:
'it's a shame that a former champion has struggled to get the funds together for his seat, whilst other drivers who have been less successful will still be on the grid. But that's the way motorsport is'?

[S griffin]

He never lead at Brahds Hatch. He was running third when he went off under threat from Nash. Maybe you are getting confused with Morgan in 2014?

It’s not the only time. I remember him dropping from 7th to 10th in Snetterton 2010, because of an unforced error.

Yes drivers don’t want to concede corners, but the top drivers know when to back out of it. Neate didn’t always do that. Remember that multi car collision he caused at Brands 2012? Or him taking off another car at Woodcote in 2013? If he didn’t keep doing that it wouldn’t be so easy to knock him. After all he has shown speed on occasion

[BobJones]

Bert's certainly been smashing out those sponsorship request emails (grammatical errors inclusive), one BTC driver down...

[RS67]

Originally Posted by S griffin

He never lead at Brahds Hatch. He was running third when he went off under threat from Nash. Maybe you are getting confused with Morgan in 2014?

It’s not the only time. I remember him dropping from 7th to 10th in Snetterton 2010, because of an unforced error.

You're right he was 3rd, but that was a 3rd place he had held for 11 of 12 laps before had a "flaky" moment 3 laps before the end of the race.
It isn't as if it is every lap and every race. To have an average finishing position of 12th, isn't the placing of a slow or flaky driver. Even when he in the MG, where Plato's car was the only "reliable" car of the two, he maintained his average. It was his MG that was just making up the numbers that year, not the driver himself and he did well to get it to finish in the places he did.

[S griffin]

For those 11 and 12 laps he was under no pressure. It’s when the drivers behind started to catch he made the mistake. He’s not a bad driver, but nowhere near a top driver unfortunately

[Matt K]

Definitely not a top driver given teams he's raced in and results he achieved. Okay, they were not terrible very often but still far from being on par with his teammates. We'll see how he fares this season, will be interesting. I doubt he'll make an impact.

[S griffin]

I think his main problem is that he hasn’t raced in anything since his brief drive in the third Honda in 2016. So he’s pretty much starting from zero. I think he will struggle to get any decent results

[Sodemo]

I think Neate can be quick, he outqualified Plato in the MG at least once, but he's erratic. I think his massive shunt at Brands Hatch exiting Graham Hill when he collected I think two other cars kinda showed that maybe the BTCC isn't quite "his" level.