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View Poll Results: Is it time to award the ATCC & Bathurst 1000 for TCR?
Yes, within 1-2 years 7 26.92%
Maybe later (in 3-6 years time?) 6 23.08%
Never 13 50.00%
Voters: 26. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 21 Jun 2020, 01:27 (Ref:3982996)   #46
2 litre Touring Car Star
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2 litre Touring Car Star should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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It is premature, if ARG ceased to function today, TCR in Australia is dead. TCR here right is a balloon ARG has pumped up.

If Supercars the organisation disappeared, the teams still exist and can put on a show.

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What balloon has been pumped up? An initial investment? They've barely injected any air into this "balloon".

Supercars organisations disappeared, what "show" is supercars going to put on?

If both Supercars and ARG disappeared. All that would happen is MA takes responsibility of both categories, then what do you think is going to happen?

With TCR (Representing 2 litre racing), MA won't be abandoning it. They saw last year "Hang on, people like these cars and want to see them racing. It might not be as well known as supercars. But there's something in this that's worthwhile to keep going anyway."

They saw last year that TCR solves a lot of problems. Commercial potential/value, flexibility with scheduling, something a wider amount of competitors can aspire to. A class that people like, and have goodwill towards.

Last year, TCR managed to do something extraordinary in the history of Australian motorsport. They managed to get people (As in, a substantial amount of people), to come to a Shannons Nationals round!

Do you know how hard that is? It's really, really hard. A stand alone Super2-3 couldn't do it. GT racing with the big name supercars drivers don't attract anyone to SN rounds. Yet people turned up to SN TCR rounds? (It might not have been the 4 billion people that turn up to supercars rounds, but people turned up off their own accord.)

More people would've turned up to last year's SN rounds than for the previous 14 years combined. MA/ARG would've been happy if their attendance last year happened in a few years from now. They're going "Who are these people, and where have they come from??? These people did not show up in our focus group studies?"

With supercars, all you can do it cut costs. You cut expenses to the point where the pre-Cochrane ATCC actually looks pretty good (An ATCC that supercars names don't hide in taking a **** on). The only thing you can do with Supercars is turn it into the best field ever in Super 3 history.

NZ? CHOP!. Townsville? CHOP! Newcastle? CHOP! Darwin? Stay of execution, but the axe is ready? Gold Coast? CHOP! Adelaide? CHOP! (Should become an Indycar round now anyway)

Expensive, antiquated and outdated regs. No flexibility. A series that exists to maintain a clique. Little goodwill. I wonder what magical car Gen 3 is going to be?
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Old 21 Jun 2020, 05:10 (Ref:3983001)   #47
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Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
What you say about the regs, fine.

But ARG owns most or all of the cars in this country and is still paying the bills.

Come make this suggestion when there are actual standalone teams and not just the second year in a row of contracted exhibition races as a fishing expedition.

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Old 21 Jun 2020, 06:53 (Ref:3983005)   #48
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Casper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridCasper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by Mixer View Post
What you say about the regs, fine.

But ARG owns most or all of the cars in this country and is still paying the bills.

Come make this suggestion when there are actual standalone teams and not just the second year in a row of contracted exhibition races as a fishing expedition.

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Sign me up! If the promoters are paying the bills to race I want in, what a fantastic idea for the guys struggling to go racing. Where do I find out how much they are paying because if what you are saying is true why wouldn't drivers be lining up to race.
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Old 21 Jun 2020, 07:50 (Ref:3983011)   #49
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Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Sign me up! If the promoters are paying the bills to race I want in, what a fantastic idea for the guys struggling to go racing. Where do I find out how much they are paying because if what you are saying is true why wouldn't drivers be lining up to race.
It is absolutely true and the truth about the Kelly and Bright entries has already basically completely come out after the subterfuge that the teams themselves actually purchased and owned these cars ended. GRM are heavily involved with ARG, and they and Wall, MPC, and HMO all want to put on a show because they want to sell cars and spare parts.

I would suggest when the money stops MPC's Audi will go back home. Not sure they will sell any cars now that VAG is out and there will be no further development.

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Old 21 Jun 2020, 23:20 (Ref:3983142)   #50
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one five five should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridone five five should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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63 car started the '84 James Hardie 1000. 29 were classified as finishers.

49 cars started the '85 James Hardie 1000. 23 were classified as finishers.

You do the math, but marginally but be a better description than infinitely
How many of the classified finishers in 1984 were Group A cars though?
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Old 22 Jun 2020, 00:03 (Ref:3983147)   #51
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How many of the classified finishers in 1984 were Group A cars though?
8.

But the leading car (A TWR Rover) was 11 laps down. The money Mobil threw at the team that year was staggering.

As an aside Allan Scott's TWR and Rover 's SD1 is a great read although his round about attempt at justifying the BAHCO rockers didnt do much for me. The other two books in the series are really good too.
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Old 22 Jun 2020, 09:39 (Ref:3983191)   #52
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Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
The cars for which ARG stopped paying:

https://www.australianracinggroup.com/marketplace/

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Old 22 Jun 2020, 11:08 (Ref:3983199)   #53
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Ok then. That means up to 23 competitors for the series.
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Old 22 Jun 2020, 11:11 (Ref:3983200)   #54
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What you say about the regs, fine.

But ARG owns most or all of the cars in this country and is still paying the bills.

Come make this suggestion when there are actual standalone teams and not just the second year in a row of contracted exhibition races as a fishing expedition.

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How about I make the suggestion when there's authentic touring cars racing in a genuine touring cars series in Australia?

That would've meant I would've registered to this site last year?
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Old 22 Jun 2020, 11:21 (Ref:3983201)   #55
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It is absolutely true and the truth about the Kelly and Bright entries has already basically completely come out after the subterfuge that the teams themselves actually purchased and owned these cars ended.
It's irrelevant as the Kelly's are not a drawcard or popular.

Bright had nothing else to do.

I like how you portray as if something seriously sinister is going on. When all the BS has actually been with the 5 litre class.



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GRM are heavily involved with ARG, and they and Wall, MPC, and HMO all want to put on a show because they want to sell cars and spare parts.
I also like how you put a dark spin on this. Selling cars and parts is what happens in a car racing series. It's what's meant to happen.

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I would suggest when the money stops MPC's Audi will go back home. Not sure they will sell any cars now that VAG is out and there will be no further development.

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Yeah. They'll probaly move into supercars racing with support from Holden.
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Old 22 Jun 2020, 23:14 (Ref:3983285)   #56
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Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I note you don't address the issue at hand, that ARG contracted every car in the grid to run last year, while releasing press releases and stories about how these teams purchased and owned these cars.

And Supercars is the one with the BS?

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Old 22 Jun 2020, 23:33 (Ref:3983286)   #57
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Maybe semantics, but doesn't the REC system function similarly (in a roundabout way) to what ARG are doing? I mean, without it how many teams would still be racing?

In short, money from the series/promoter/whatever has bought the cars.

Same same?
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Old 23 Jun 2020, 00:38 (Ref:3983292)   #58
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Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
No because the RECs are a shareholding in the business. The REC income is a dividend to a shareholder.

I don't blame ARG for doing what they have, it's BIG money and they wanted to make a splash.

But you can't take it seriously here yet when it only exists at the behest of the organiser.

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Old 23 Jun 2020, 01:06 (Ref:3983295)   #59
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I have no dog in this fight but in reality every series is at the behest or the organiser/promotor because without their financial support racing does not happen. Any way you look at it the promoter has to stump up money to make it work and whether he can recoup that money is always a gamble. If the money buys cars the promoter has some equity to recover if it all fails. My ideal way to go racing would be for the promotor to have an arrive and drive and he takes the financial hit if it goes down the gurglar which seems to happen all too often.
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Old 24 Jun 2020, 12:48 (Ref:3983576)   #60
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I note you don't address the issue at hand, that ARG contracted every car in the grid to run last year, while releasing press releases and stories about how these teams purchased and owned these cars.
I didn't address the issue at hand? You want me to write more? Ok then.

I can only speculate as to why they did that. The business/commercial situation is not something I had in depth knowledge about, and I did not look further. I wouldn't have encouraged them to do it.



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And Supercars is the one with the BS?

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Always.

But getting back to speculating ARG's strategy?

I would say it's a precursor to show prospective competitors what the series could look like if they got involved.

As the commercial rights holder, I would say that ARG were open to looking silly regardless of how they chose to start the series. They just chose the method they were more comfortable with.

They start as they did, and all the backlash they get is from people like you picking holes and lame supercars fans deriding/emasculating the spectacle of the cars.

As the commercial rights holder assigned to create an economy around the series, I'd say ARG chose the method they did because they couldn't be bothered waiting for a more organic growth to the series to occur.

As the commercial rights holder, I'd say they chose the path they did because they had nothing to work with. The series doesn't have any history to trade off. No big names to trade off. They only thing they had going for them is the maybe the memory of some fans having of the 90s BTCC and Super Touring down here. But that's not something you can really use commercially.

I'd say ARG weren't really sure how popular they've be first up? As per the previous paragraph, they had nothing to work with. All the market research, surveys and focus groups wouldn't have allowed them to be really confident in their product. In hindsight, they might not have exaggerated their situation or spoken straight lies.

I'd say that with at least one person on their group working at supercars, I'd say that ARG have learnt that talking complete BS works. They didn't have the luxury of waiting for possible organic growth. We live in an age where pumping things up is a norm. Dragging out information and boosting a social media presence is the norm. Nobody cares now.

I'll think of more as I go along. However this is only from the perspective of ARG and their tactics. If a group like them are needed, then it's only when the initial work is done and you need help to create or maintain an economy.

From the point of view of CAMS/MA, they could've started TCR or another 2 litre class years ago, and it would've got to the point where a commercial organisation may have been needed. Unlike ARG, who have commercial interests at stake, CAMS/MA would've had the space to allow a series to grow organically.

CAMS/MA could've allowed a TCR series years ago without fanfare or a commercial right holder. No doubt the series would've started modestly (4-6 cars?) and maybe lumped with another class. But had it started in 2015, a meaningful series would've emerged looking similar to as it is now.

What else are you going to pick at?

Too many white cars maybe?

They're racing at Bathurst, but it's not a real Bathurst with a multiple class, 55 car field?

They haven't attracted Fernando Alonso to race in it?
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