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7 Oct 2016, 13:17 (Ref:3678123) | #26 | |
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7 Oct 2016, 13:47 (Ref:3678127) | #27 | |||
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I personally disagree with you with regards to the chassis, as the regulations do mandate retention of the original chassis and bodyshell. Of course there is a vast amount of work done to that standard structure (to the point where I wonder how much the shell actually contributes to the overall rigidity of the car), but it is still there. There do seem to have been a lot of tweaks made to the regulations to level the playing field (or at least remove the grey areas). I know weight distribution was addressed a while ago and there were some changes concerning transmission tunnels a year or so ago too. Yeah. I daresay measuring cost is difficult to gauge due to inflation, but the involvement of big names in the build of cars is always a sure sign the cost will go up! |
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7 Oct 2016, 15:01 (Ref:3678142) | #28 | |
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Is someone using the Godfrey universial WRX engine?
BTW this tech talk is one of the great things of RX. |
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7 Oct 2016, 15:05 (Ref:3678143) | #29 | ||
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7 Oct 2016, 15:13 (Ref:3678144) | #30 | |
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Okay here's a list from the WRX website:
Peugeot Hansen - Oreca Olsbergs - Mountune World RX Team Austria - Pipo Volkswagen RX Sweden - Trollspeed EKS - Audi (I assume this is just the brand, not tuner) All-Inkl.com Motorsport - Special Motorsport (this company is unknown to me) Hoonigan - Ford Performance & M-Sport Source: http://www.fiaworldrallycross.com/teams |
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7 Oct 2016, 15:35 (Ref:3678147) | #31 | |||
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M-Sport were Pipo last year, guess they learned from those and then moved the engine development in house! Solberg is still using Pipo, isn't he? Larsson used Trollspeed in 2015 and the Albatec cars were indicated as being Oreca powered in 2014. Don't know if either of those have changed suppliers. |
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7 Oct 2016, 15:50 (Ref:3678156) | #32 | ||
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Solberg Pipo. Albatec Oreca. Last edited by FIRE; 7 Oct 2016 at 15:56. |
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7 Oct 2016, 19:50 (Ref:3678223) | #33 | ||
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Yeah me too! Especially since it's hard to have a look at the engines these days. Love that stuff like Race Car Engineering and so. Would still love to know about the base engines being used. Could the EKS Audi have a 20VT engine based around the old Skoda WRC engines, manifold looks a bit like it. Also would like to know more about those American Beetles which apparently use 1.6 engines as Andretti made a deal with Trollspeed (or was it Marklund?) about technology, which seems odd since no one uses a 1.6 VW engine. Interesting too see that Hedstrom said the engine in his new Polo was quite a bit stronger than his old Jernberg Skoda, although using the same block, so either power has gone up or his old one was a bit tired (I guess both as tuners tend to put updates during an overhaul)... |
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9 Oct 2016, 13:41 (Ref:3678660) | #34 | ||
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I have heard that Solberg has spent quite some money on his engine ... I think they changed to a 2.0 engine after just one season. The deal was with Marklund but they used Trollspeed engines, and still do. I have no idea what was included in the deal actually, very dull information there. |
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13 Oct 2016, 10:29 (Ref:3679722) | #35 | ||
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13 Oct 2016, 10:47 (Ref:3679724) | #36 | |
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I don't think any of the cars in the final are cheap. Although I guess it's cheaper if you can use an engine which is used by others, like those VW engines (or before the Godfrey Cosworth engines) as the tuner can split the development costs.
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13 Oct 2016, 11:25 (Ref:3679732) | #37 | ||
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This is part of the point I was raising about WRX becoming solely a money formula. Rather than being slightly innovative aswell.
You could argue that is has always been, and there is some truth in that. But now it is SO SO specialised, specialist engine manuafacturers, transmissions, suspension, bodyshells. All that costs far more than is used to. Don't you just long for someone to turn up with some sort of back yard special that blows everyone away and makes them all think about how they are doing things? Last time that really happened was Solberg when he originally came over and introduced very soft suspension, rally style setups and a lot of people copied him. But to compete now costs millions so you cant afford to innovate, you are under so much pressure to simply keep up, you can't develop. Your development is simply finding more from what you have. Even in the bleak old days of the mid to late 90's you had Citroen running two cars one with hydro pneu suspension, another a different shape, Saab running various layouts, Ford running Cossie and Zetec, Schanche running weird transmissions, Hyundai running what is basically a 2016 style car with a tuner engine and bought in suspension, and Opel running a totally unique idea of a car. Have we really advanced that much? We are certainly getting good crowds, semi decent tv and huge budgets, but the cars are all very similar. |
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13 Oct 2016, 21:07 (Ref:3679837) | #38 | |
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About home brewed: check YT for Kelsey MC2, a 207 mixture of WRX, WRC, Prototype and Ice Racer...
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14 Oct 2016, 08:04 (Ref:3679931) | #39 | ||
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14 Oct 2016, 09:09 (Ref:3679942) | #40 | |
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Some of the cars use central diffs while others don't, thats the biggest difference I can think of.
As for Solberg, his setup from the start was more dumb than innovative. Throughout the years his cars has gotten less and less softer too. Remember Stecka tried a softer setup during his last season. Not very good results and when he switched back to a regular setup in Austria he got to his first final of the season and then also another final in Germany, |
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14 Oct 2016, 10:42 (Ref:3679952) | #41 | ||||
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I have been curious about the configuration of the rear end of Solberg's current DS3 for some time. I recall there being talk about a redesigned rear (I think early in 2014?) and the back end of the car looked lower to the ground, but the car still seems to pitch around a lot, so I wondered if he had raised the rear suspension turrets and/or opted for shorter shocks to bring the back of the car down. Quote:
In my personal opinion there are only a couple of current drivers who look comfortable driving a Supercar with a soft setup. |
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14 Oct 2016, 10:57 (Ref:3679956) | #42 | ||
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Hvaal quite Solbergs team after a few rounds because he couldn't drive the thing, and they refused to change it much.
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14 Oct 2016, 10:57 (Ref:3679957) | #43 | |
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The front of the Solberg car seems to have far more travel than the rear. Sure it will have some sort of reason. Otherwise: if the Hansen cars were slower on a soft set up, can the Solberg car be possibly quicker on a harder set up?
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14 Oct 2016, 11:21 (Ref:3679966) | #44 | ||||
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Quote:
With Solberg driving: I wouldn't think so. With Timmy at the wheel: maybe. The PSRX DS3 doesn't seem to be shy of power, especially at the top end. That engine configuration might not work as well if the car was to be driven cleanly. |
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14 Oct 2016, 12:05 (Ref:3679972) | #45 | ||
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I understand the point of having all wheels in contact with the ground but how necessary is it? Sure, some like softer suspension like Solberg but he is probably the best driver in the field also so if anyone can handle it, its him. However, he also wears up his tires more than anyone else. Other drivers like Ekström, Kristoffersson, Loeb and the Hansen brothers drives very smooth with a harder setup, don't wear out their tires, keeps their wheel in contact with ground and are very fast. Even if Solberg had his worst round ever in Latvia, they are catching up to him. |
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14 Oct 2016, 13:06 (Ref:3679977) | #46 | ||
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If you looked closely at Lydden you could see the Fords were running, very, very soft suspension, and remember they are from exactly the same arena as Petter, WRC where their Reigers run insane travel and hugely soft setups, through the chicane you could see Bakkeruds car in particular lift its front wheels clearly off the ground, praps sorted more now.
They are new to this as Petter was so are learning. You don't need to run that soft, there are not the changes in terrain and bumps where you need it, if you look at Hansens, Larssons, Erikssons cars they are soft but mainly to encourage turn in on these garbage tyres they have to run and the diff settings they have to use to get the power down. |
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14 Oct 2016, 13:33 (Ref:3679985) | #47 | |||
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Given that M-Sport had some rallycross experience with the Fiesta I would think they must have thought there was some merit starting with a soft setup again. The Focus looked a lot stiffer at Loheac, but I wonder if that was a specific setup for that circuit. As an aside I the OMSE Fiestas looked soft at Lydden as well. I was surprised as the team know the circuit, but the cars looked like the Team Austria cars did when they first appeared (i.e. bloody hard work to drive!). |
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14 Oct 2016, 13:47 (Ref:3679987) | #48 | |
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I've heard from one of the non regular SuperCar drivers that the trend for softer settings also provides more grip which in return gives more boost due to earlier boost being build up (like in 5th gear). Interesting or what?!
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15 Oct 2016, 16:27 (Ref:3680251) | #49 | |
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I think perhaps the argument is starting from the wrong end. Solberg had an excellent career in rallycross and hillclimbs before he got the Ford factory contract. He was recognized as an "engineer driver" in that he could work closely with the engineers on development and setup of rally cars. This he brought with him into his private WRC team, arguably the most successful privateer team in WRC history. When he first got into the current FIA World RX championship (2013 i believe) he was fast but unreliable. After going to Pipo motors (and a rumored lively internal reorganization), he ran part of the 2014 and most of the 2015 seasons without a race engineer (i.e. filling that function himself) and has kept becoming faster each year.
Now, I propose two things that are going to happen if he is leading the design and setups himself: 1) The car becomes ever more customized for his personal preferences 2) The car becomes ever more difficult to drive for every other driver So my argument is that the current fad for soft setups are based on the immense success Petter has had with his car - but he is driving a car designed exclusively for his personal preferences and driving style. The soft setup is only one of many aspects of his highly successful car concept. EKRX has four cars and two drivers - they are probably at least as technically advanced and powerful as Petter's single car, but they have to suit both drivers. We see this in F1 all the time too - take any great driver and hire them as driver #2 in a team. Driver #1 gets first dibs on the car setups during design of next years car, and will very likely be faster. Last edited by Silhuette; 15 Oct 2016 at 16:41. |
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15 Oct 2016, 17:12 (Ref:3680263) | #50 | ||
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Many believe though that he is too involved with the engineering part. For example when he won the WRC title in 2003, I know a guy that argued that he won the title just because he was #2 in the team, kind of opposite of your last point. Then he would just drive and could not have his own ideas, which would hinder him actually. A reason that he did not have a engineer for some time can also be because he thinks that he knows best. He had worked with the second guy from Volkswagen Motorsport for a while who was in the WRC team and apparently that guy was not good enough for him. When it comes to testing he wants perfection, which is fully understandable. However, he keeps changing his setup after tests, making them useless. He is a hard guy to work with to say the least. Still though an amazing driver with incredible skills. The first time he ever raced crosskart in Höljes, he lead the race and took the joker on the first lap and was still first when exiting ... |
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