"I Love That E-Cell" - Lee Holdsworth

[GTRMagic]

With Mr Holdsworth's mega crash at Sandown at the weekend, it brings back into play the discussion about the Erebus E-cell, the safety seat they have installed in their V8Supercars.

Designed by Erebus & AMG, the seat is like a capsule, almost as if sitting in a single seater, without the top section.



Mr Holdsworth & his team are making a strong point that this safety system played an enormous role in his ability to walk away from the wreck virtually intact.



Its not exactly a thing of beauty, and its not clear whether they all come with Mrs Klimenko's signature & kisses aboard, but the difference between the standard seat, and this cell is enormous! Wonder what it weighs for that carbon fibre 'bathtub'

Story Here

Mr Larkham tried to pioneer something similar in his first Mitre 10 Falcon back in the mid 1990's, for performance purposes not necessarily safety as the primary objective.

Should these seats be made mandatory in all V8SC? Presuming that Erebus has the capacity to make/sell them in the required numbers...

[GTRMagic]

[one five five]

I'd say it will come down to "How pricey are they?"

[PVDA]

To be honest the crash looked big because a lot of the body work fell off the car.

Don't get me wrong it was still a big hit but made to look worse by the current CoTF bodywork design.

[mikuni]

Do these cars have g-force meters in them?

I like the premise of the e-cell but I don't like the rub of Erebus owning the rights to them and continually using every opportunity to push them on everyone. James Courtney's crash last year to me proved the concept of the cars, while I wasn't overly impressed by the roll cage breaking. Sure the e-cell may have helped a little in that area, but does it introduce other issues such as massive cost to implement across the field, or possibly even more difficulty in exiting the vehicle in the case of a fire? Just throwing it out there for a discussion.

I do enjoy Betty's rants, but by god they are the most difficult thing to read!

[GHOGH]

V8 supercars have an ADR
http://motec.com.au/latestnews/fiaadr/

The belting on the tyre wall and chains plus the hans, seat belts and absorption of forces by the car were other factors.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by one five five

I'd say it will come down to "How pricey are they?"

How fast can you afford to crash?

[TWRv12]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

How fast can you afford to crash?

Also need luck.

Isn't the run off at that corner a bit short?

Fair play to Betty in making her cars safer.

If V8SC adopt the E-Cell it should bring the unit cost down.

[PVDA]

Considering this was a pretty much head on then spin spin around crash how much did the so called Safety Cell help and how much did the seat belts and head restraint and the initial head butt into the tyres would've been the high G part I would've thought ??

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by PVDA

Considering this was a pretty much head on then spin spin around crash how much did the so called Safety Cell help and how much did the seat belts and head restraint and the initial head butt into the tyres would've been the high G part I would've thought ??

Would think it would have helped a lot while the car was spinning, it did whip around really quick.

I can think of plenty of accidents this type of cell would have reduced injuries in, but others I am sure it wouldn't have.

[kittle]

I was speaking to an Erebus mechanic when they were at the GC Titans home game, and he mentioned that an E-Cell costs over $3,000 compared to the Racetech or equivalent seat used by most teams which are around the $1,400.

Safety first...

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by kittle

I was speaking to an Erebus mechanic when they were at the GC Titans home game, and he mentioned that an E-Cell costs over $3,000 compared to the Racetech or equivalent seat used by most teams which are around the $1,400.

Safety first...

In the scheme of things, that's not much, is the difference less than a set of tyres?

[GHOGH]

How much better is the whole DTM cell?
http://www.eurocarnews.com/0/0/1810/...standards.html

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by kittle

I was speaking to an Erebus mechanic when they were at the GC Titans home game, and he mentioned that an E-Cell costs over $3,000 compared to the Racetech or equivalent seat used by most teams which are around the $1,400.

Safety first...

Kittle not trying to be a smart arse, but just to clarify the central point here "Cost" The seats in the maingame are mostly Racetech seats made here in New Zealand to meet the lastest FIA standards and they retail for A$7,000 plus.

Sabelt and OMP's all Carbon Fibre safety cell seats also sell for similar money, and are not as elaborate as AMG's E'cell.

[one five five]

If these things are so good & there is no price on safety, why were they not made a compulsory part of the CotF package right from the start in 2013?

[Umai Naa]

Perhaps Erebus never thought to apply to be the control supplier?

No reason why they can't do it retrospectively, providing 1) the price is right, and 2) it's as good as, if not better, than what's already in use.

[Langers]

Maybe I've just become completely desensitised seeing as it has been so long since a fatality in V8SC, but I wasn't really concerned when I saw the crash. Car that is itself basically a roll cage + HANS + belted tyre wall + no fire afterwards and bits flying off the car to shed energy had me thinking immediately he would be alive. E-Cell only makes it safer.

After such a prang, once cleared of internal injuries and concussion, I would be most concerned about retinal detachment over coming weeks and months. Does anyone know the ophthalmologic protocol for observation after such an incident?

[Langers]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

Perhaps Erebus never thought to apply to be the control supplier?

No reason why they can't do it retrospectively, providing 1) the price is right, and 2) it's as good as, if not better, than what's already in use.

It was developed in the 109 days of the Erebus program, a long time after control components had been decided. Perhaps could have pushed for it in 2013 for 2014 introduction, but they had other things to worry about.

[TWRv12]

I dug up this page which I can't find on www.dtm.com

Since 2012: The next generation of DTM touring cars

http://www.dtm.com/en/News/2012-DTM-...ring-cars.html

http://web.archive.org/web/201404241...ring-cars.html

One of the biggest revolutions of the current DTM cars are the standard safety structures designed to protect the driver in case of an accident. Next to the six crash elements at the sides, the front and the rear, the combination of the standard monocoque and roll cage with integrated safety tank protects the driver better in case of an accident. Moreover, the seat, similar to single-seater race cars, was integrated into the carbon fibre monocoque that is connected to a roll cage of high-strength steel. This innovative safety cell is the heart of all the DTM cars.

Also
http://fourtitude.com/news/motorspor...-touring-cars/

[TWRv12]

DEKRA performs the acceptance tests in the DTM

http://www.dekra-motorsport.com/en/d...ischen-abnahme

Dtm crash tests in this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=iob8jqG4S8s

[kittle]

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

Kittle not trying to be a smart arse, but just to clarify the central point here "Cost" The seats in the maingame are mostly Racetech seats made here in New Zealand to meet the lastest FIA standards and they retail for A$7,000 plus.

Sabelt and OMP's all Carbon Fibre safety cell seats also sell for similar money, and are not as elaborate as AMG's E'cell.

Sorry Mark that was actually meant to be $13,000.

[Langers]

Originally Posted by kittle

Sorry Mark that was actually meant to be $13,000.

Still a bargain. Fraction of the cost of just one team building event, and presumably the cells last multiple years.

What are workplace OH&S requirements for race drivers? Is there a possibility that by not using technology that is (relatively) cheap, readily available and easily implemented that in the case of death or serious injury a team owner could be prosecuted (e.g. Frank Williams re: Senna) or sued for negligent conduct by the driver?

[mikuni]

I don't really buy into comparing DTM cars to V8 Supercars. While COTF is far from a road car and some would say not technically a "touring car", DTM really is an open wheeler/formula car with panels. It's hard to draw any relevance between the two.

[GTRMagic]

The rebuild begins

[TWRv12]

Originally Posted by mikuni

I don't really buy into comparing DTM cars to V8 Supercars. While COTF is far from a road car and some would say not technically a "touring car", DTM really is an open wheeler/formula car with panels. It's hard to draw any relevance between the two.

For starters the E-Cell concept came from DTM.

Most of all its a target to aim for and there are concepts that might be possible to apply to V8SC in a cheaper way.

Things like the crash structures and their crash testing surely have some relevance.

After the Courtney PI crash there was a lot of guff about how things would be improved in the future.... and we are still waiting for the answer to that one.

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

Perhaps Erebus never thought to apply to be the control supplier?

In NASCAR, don't Hendrick's make seats for other teams? Could be a deal something like that.