Andy Granatelli responds to article written on IRL and CART

[MrIndy500]

Dear Ed:
Thank you for writing the recent article “Slicker than STP”. With all due respect, you have in my humble opinion, a few of the facts wrong. I do not recall your being at the 45th American Auto Racing Writers and Broadcasters Association Breakfast held at the Brickyard Crossing Inn Resort & Inn on Saturday, May 27, 2000. If this were true, it would explain why you did not have an accurate quote. In any case, during my speech I said in the very first paragraph “I challenge anyone who wants to ask me why my solution will not work.” (Copy of speech transcript attached.) When I finished speaking, I paused and said “Any questions on the subject?” There were none. I then said, “Thank you, that’s a compliment.”

From the above, one would assume that approximately 50 press writers would have agreed with me. In any case, they all applauded with great enthusiasm after my speech. I believe that my speech made sense to many of the auto racing writers because many of them came up to me after my speech and said so (and as many other people have since that date). All you have to do is look on the Internet auto racing chat group to see what people believe.

For your information, I never said or implied (quoting from your article) “Sponsors would trip over each other to sign up for his 18 race oval deal.” This statement brings me to believe that you are missing the point I was trying to make, which is to come up with a solution to stop the bad press that both CART and IRL are getting, and will continue to get, until their feud is over. I also believe that until that day, both organizations will continue to lose fans and sponsors, which is contributing to the demise of open wheel racing, especially on oval tracks.

For your further information, I don’t believe that sponsors are as likely to do a 9-race season schedule as say a 20-race schedule because the costs on a per race basis would be much higher (for both sponsors and car owners), as opposed to an 20-race season schedule. The reason being, which you may probably know, is that the costs of the driver, race car, motors, equipment, engineering, transporter, crew, etc. are almost identical for 9 races as it is for 20 races. In other words, the cost is by the season. You can’t rent or lease by the race, you must buy everything, and the crew and driver are not hired by the race, but for the year. The added expenses to run additional races over 9 is minimal because everything but travel expenses and wear and tear on equipment is already paid for, including all wages.

As I understand it from reading cover story of the 6-21-2000 issue of the National Speed Sport News is that IRL has gone from 9 races in 2000 to 12 races for the 2001 season without any cooperation from CART. I also understand that CART (as of this writing) will be left with only 3 oval tracks from the 2000 season. This is not the dramatic situation you present where 9 oval races are being taken from CART leaving them only 11 races for the season, or even 18 oval races being run by IRL. Further, I don’t believe that CART would have problems signing up all the road races they want because every major city has the potential for a street road course, and the costs are minimal to race on street circuits (remember Long Beach). Also under my proposal CART would run the Formula One circuit at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. What a coup!

I also believe that CART will eventually replace Formula One races at Indy and many other places all over the world, or at least have a world-wide circuit just like the Formula One because there is a need for it since the costs for Formula One are totally prohibitive! Another reason there is a need for this additional type of racing is that Formula One doesn’t have enough American born drivers that would encourage more sponsorship and fans. I believe my plan would bring more American drivers aboard into all of the above racing, everywhere.

I would really appreciate it if you ever write about me again in the in the future that you speak to me directly before you make statements about me that are simply not factual. The last thing anyone who knows me would accuse Andy Granatelli of, is having a “mental lapse”. On the contrary, my mind amazes most people who know me.

Further, I don’t believe you have to be critical to be a good writer. Food for thought . . . be nice. As far as I am concerned, I don’t want to fight, I’d much rather make love, so let’s be friends. I am just a guy who loves Indy racing and is trying to keep people from destroying the sport any further. I didn’t think CART or IRL would follow my suggestions exactly, but rather to give them a reason to talk and work out a compromise before it’s too late. I believe my ideas have merit and are worth consideration because it is a start and it saves face on both sides. However, if someone shoots me down without even speaking to me or fully understanding my ideas, then the merit of the well intended thoughts are lost. Don’t you agree?

Respectfully,

Andy Granatelli

_________________________________________
Comments by Andy Granatelli, Guest of the
45th American Auto Racing Writers and Broadcasters Association Breakfast
Brickyard Crossing Inn Resort & Inn
May 27, 2000

I would like to give you something meaningful to write about and some of you may think that what l have to say may be considered controversial. But I believe that I have a solution to the IRL and CART feud. This feud is killing open wheel racing, absolutely killing it, and killing it for a number of reasons. No one likes it when people argue or fight and bad press kills everything. There are a number of variations on how to implement what I am going to say; but basically this would work. I have thought about it and I challenge anyone who wants to ask me why my solution will not work.

· Adjust the race schedules between IRL and CART so that they do not conflict. So, roughly every other week there would be a CART race and then the next week there would be an IRL race. That’s relatively simple to do, if they want to do it.
· IRL would run only oval races like they do now, but would but pick up all of the CART oval tracks since CART’s not doing well on the oval tracks and should run only road course races. Therefore you would have two types of Indy car racing,
· Have one common driver’s license so that all drivers would have one license that would work for both IRL and CART as well. That means drivers can drive one week for CART and one week for IRL, if they wanted. So, if a driver wanted to drive only ovals for IRL . . .fine. If a driver wants to drive only road courses for CART they can do that too, but most drivers would do both. In the old days, drivers used to drive sprint cars, stock cars, midgets, Indy cars and Championship cars. They drove everything and they were better drivers because they were more versatile. Why would the International Motorsports Hall of Fame name Mario Andretti and A.J. Foyt Co-Drivers of the Century if they did not have all of the experience they have? Also, most drivers would rather drive weekly than biweekly. I am reading from a sheet because I do not want it said that I contradicted myself, so please bear with me.
· The same car owner or sponsor could sponsor cars for both circuits or not. In other words, a car owner could have a CART car and an IRL car and it would make no difference.
· CART rules and IRL rules can be different and they are totally different, and that’s okay. The present hang-up of why they don’t get together is because they have two totally different sets of rules and no one wants to change and they are never going to get together on that score. So let CART run the cars the way they are and let IRL run the cars as they are and again, it makes no difference.
· By running IRL on the oval tracks and CART running only on the road course tracks it would simplify running the cars and cut costs. For CART, they would only need one set-up instead of currently having one set-up for oval one time, and then the next week having a different set-up for the road course track. It costs a fortune to do two different set-ups.

(Continued)

What makes it all possible is the foresight of Tony George when he put in the road course. Whether he realized it or not, which I doubt – and no disrespect intended, I do not think he recognized it at that time. I got this bright thought at about 3 am in the morning. George has the leverage here to make all of this happen because the IMS now has a road racing course as well as the 2½ mile oval. He can put on a separate road race for CART as well as a separate oval race for IRL and all the drivers from both organizations can run in either or both of the races. This brings all the drivers back to Indy. This is what we need. I will also bet that some of the Formula One drivers and others will want to be in both races.
All this can be done irrespective of how successful the Formula One race is going to be now, or in the future. The IMS needs roughly 200,000 fans here to make the Formula One race successful. Two hundred thousand fans - that’s every seat in the stands that currently exist around the Formula One track. I don’t think that Formula One and CART would conflict. I just don’t think they would. They really are two separate fans. That’s not to mean that there can’t be a combination, but most of the fans are separate. I think they would be complimenting each other and God forbid if the Formula One venue is not successful here in the future and it will be successful the first year for sure. But if it’s not successful in the future, guess what? CART can fill the slot. No one is going to throw the track away, so you might as well have CART race on it. Okay? Even a race crowd of 50,000 would be a big success for CART.
So the best part of my proposal is that CART and IRL don't have to merge now or in the future but they could at anytime if and when they work things out. Meanwhile, they would not be destroying open wheel racing. In other words, they could start this immediately without destroying open wheel racing. If they want to merge together, that’s fine. If they don’t want to merge, that’s fine. If they want to talk to each other, fine. If they don’t want to talk to each other that’s fine - - but stop destroying open wheel racing. The sponsors will love it, the drivers will love it, the fans will love it and most of the car owners will. (Pause) Any questions on the subject? (There were none.) Thank you, that’s a compliment.

_______________________________

Commentary
Slicker than STP by Ed Donath Contributing Writer June 18, 2000 Other columns by Ed Donath

STP was about 59 cents a can in the late Sixties when Andy Granatelli, the company's founder, doubled as a premier Indy car racing team owner. I was a high school student during that era. I was just beginning to pay attention to motorsports. Two vivid memories of the colorful and demonstrative - if not overexposed - Granatelli have stuck in my mind.
The first is of STP's President doing his own TV commercials. Granatelli's huge, meaty hands were the focus of a classic TV spot in which Andy tried in vain to grip the business end of a large screwdriver that had been dipped in STP. There was no way that his powerful paws could clamp around the "friction-proofed" tool.
Back then, even guys who didn't care if their engines ran smoother still wanted those "prerequisite" STP oval stickers for the rear bumpers or quarter windows of their "rides". What a great marketing tool STP stickers were!
My mind's other picture of Granatelli, the Marketing Wiz, is the one in which he's planting a huge kiss on Mario Andretti's cheek during Mario's singular visit to Victory Lane at Indy in 1969. It's funny how everyone in those pictures looks as though they used STP for hair tonic.
But now I'm worried that the capacity for clear marketing thoughts has slipped through Andy Granatelli's grasp like a lubed-up screwdriver. His recent comments at the annual gathering of the American Auto Racing Writers and Broadcasters Association have led me to that suspicion.
"I have a solution to the IRL/CART feud," Granatelli pontificated. "IRL would run only oval races as they do now, but would pick up all of CART's oval tracks since CART isn't doing well on oval tracks. CART should run only road courses." Andy went on to tout the benefits and byproducts of his "solution". His belief is that simplification of car setup would bring costs down which, in turn, would make sponsors and team owners very happy.
That, and: "Put a little STP in those stock-block engines and watch 'em do 500 miles with ease."
In Andy's whacky STP Oval Series (SOS!) - using the 2000 CART and IRL schedules - CART would lose 9 events, reducing its season to an 11-race program. IRL, on the other hand, would double its race program. Its nine current races would become 18.
Even if team owners were amenable to such radical changes what makes Granatelli think that sponsors would trip over each other to sign up for his proposed 18-race oval deal? Since the IRL's inception its "oval-successful" teams have struggled to find enough sponsorship even for a 9-race quorum.
"The best part of my proposal is that CART and IRL don't have to merge now or in the future but they could at any time if and when they work things out. Meanwhile, they would not be destroying open-wheel racing. If they want to merge, that's fine. If they want to talk to each other fine. If they don't want to talk to each other, that's fine," was the summation of Granatelli's proposal (this from the genius who put engine additives on the map and enabled latter-day slick stuff marketers to get as much as 50 bucks a pop for their magic potions).
Did Granatelli really think he'd make sense to media types with this kind of nonsense?
To be charitable, and until I can prove otherwise, let's just say that Granatelli's mental lapse was caused by one of my colleagues substituting some STP for the olive oil in Granatelli's salad dressing. Hey, don't look at me…since the big CART writers vs. IRL writers food fight in 1996 I don't get invited to these slick affairs anymore.
You can e-mail Ed at: speedwriter@hotmail.com
You can e-mail the Webmaster at: webmaster@seventhgear.com
Go to the Forums to discuss this article

[botsquad]

andy: you forgot to mention the one thing that would really put the whole package over, smear black grease all over the drivers faces. just like in the old days, which what you obviously love.

andy: you also forgot to mention one other thing. tony george is using his ims clout to bring cart to its knees.

andy: say thank you tony. thank you trying to make names out of awesome talents like, billy boat?
and keeping eddie cheever racing a indy rather than a un-american like that helio castro guy.


ooops.

[Liz]

Guys:

We don't want the IRL and CART to merge. We want Tony George to take his little toy cars and go away. We like things the way they are, thank you, and CART will continue to expand into Europe and South America and Asia and the IRL will continue to dwindle away.

Thank you for your earnest attempts to fix what ain't broke, but we're handling it fine now.

[Neil C]

Ah yes, STP, or as we knew it in the old days: "S**t That Pours".

In all my years working on, driving, and racing cars, none of us ever figured out what the stuff was good for, unless perhaps to put into the crankcase of a leaky engine to thicken the oil and slow down the leak for the short time that engine had left before becoming a boat anchor.

The stickers, on the other hand, were very useful. They covered rust and blemishes in backyard paint jobs, and were nearly as good as duct tape (the vinyl ones, not the paper ones). Plus, they sent the unmistakable message: hey, I'm a car kinda guy and I've got the bald tires and STP decals to prove it!

Thanks Andy, for the memories.

[Franklin]

Thank you Liz, Botsquad, and Neil C for those DEEPLY PROFOUND THOUGHTFUL BRILLIANT responses.

And by the way, Liz, if IRL cars were using 800 to 900 horsepower engines like the CART cars they with their current aerodynamic package would likely be turning 240 to 250 mph laps. It's easy to call them "toy" cars when you ignore the fact they're running normally aspirated engines producing about 200 less horsepower, or that CART is also essentially a spec car series running really expensive kit cars.

[fatbloke]

zzzzzzzzzz.......

OK, maybe Liz should rephrase that, 'toy chassis and engine combinations' ?

[ma]

STP : Sucker'em Top Price

Yea, right, Frank. And CART cars, if they had the same aero package of just 4 years ago would turn over 300 at Fontana. They are expensive 'cause it costs a lot to build REAL race cars to such a spec.

BTW, if you had any real engineering knowledge ( not just the ability to read from books what others have done ) you would have known beforehand that your LSR was destined to be a turkey.

[Neil C]

You're welcome, Franklin.

BTW, what do you use STP for?

[Franklin]

"...it costs a lot to build REAL racecars to such a spec" Yes it does, MA, particularly when you have to buy them from price gouging con artists.

Below are some other vehicles with large composite structures that provide informative contrasts to Reynard, Lola, etc kit prices.

(See http://www.viper-aircraft.com)
"So What's It Going to Cost?

ViperJet™ Kit Pricing:

Kit A: Fuselage, Vertical Stab, Rudder, Horizontal Stab, Elevators &
Associated Hardware. $57,900
Kit B: Wings, Spars, Ailerons, Flaps, Landing Gear & Associated
Hardware. $49,400
Kit C: Canopy, Latches, Seats, Quadrants & other finishing
hardware .$27,600

Total cost of ViperJet Kit:$134,900

Deposit Required: A 10% deposit is required ($13,490) to hold a serial
number position for a ViperJet™ kit. This deposit is applied against
total price or to last sub kit C.

Note: This introductory price will be for the first 10 ViperJet Kits
only.

Note** The ViperJet™ kit comes with our “Excel Build”™ Option standard,
which will save over 800 hours of build time.

Excel Build Airframe include the following:
Jigged fuselage, Fuselage bulkheads installed, vertical spars installed,
one side vertical skin installed, vertical stab ribs installed, Top
fuselage skins bonded, spar box installed, Wing spars bonded, wing ribs
installed, horizontal stab spars bonded, horizontal stab ribs installed,
ailerons closed, flaps closed, rudder closed, elevators closed.

All ViperJet™ structural airframe components are manufactured with
carbon fiber materials.

For further information call Viper Aircraft Corporation"

(For the one below see http://www.twinjet.com)

"Kit Pricing

Basic Kit

Effective January 2000


Air Frame with pressurization
All fiberglass airframe parts, flight controls, landing gear.

$179,500

Engines ( 2 modified T-58 turbojets w/750 lb. thrust)
Includes 35-Amp alternator, alternator controller, and brackets

Note: Engine prices may vary subject to availability


$110,000

Options


Fast Build Fuselage
Major fuselage, internal bulkheads, and vertical tail members aligned
and glassed.

$9,800

Fast Build Inboard Wing
Spar, ribs, and bottom skin glassed, spar-fuse attachment bolt holes
aligned and drilled.

$6,500

Fast Build Outboard Wing
Spar, ribs, and bottom skin glassed, spar-spar attachment bolt holes
aligned and drilled.

$8,500

Wing Fuel Cell Installation
Installation of fuel cell interconnect hose fittings and sealing of fuel
cells

$3,500

Fuselage Fuel Cell Installation
Installation of fuel fittings, internal bulkheads, and sealing of fuel
cells

$2,500


Fast Build Horizontal Tail
Spar, ribs and bottom skin glassed, hinges aligned and drilled.

$4,000

Fast Build Ailerons
Spar, ribs and bottom skin glassed, hinges aligned and drilled

$1,000

Fast Build Elevators
Spar, ribs and bottom skin glassed, hinges aligned and drilled

$1,000

Landing Gear Setup
Alignment and installation of main and nose gear legs and retract
trunnion mounts.

$4,500

Heated windshield

TBD

Anti-icing System - wings, tail, engine inlets

$32,000

Speed Brakes
Synchronized, electrically operated

$3,500

Payment Terms


Airframe Deposit

$10,000

Fuselage Kit

$60,000

Wing Kit

$60,000

Systems Kit

$24,500

Balance

$25,000


Engine Deposit (month 6)

$40,000

Engine Payment (month 8)

$70,000

Above sub-kits can be ordered as a complete package and all options are
paid for at the time of sub-kit purchase. Above prices do not include
any applicable taxes, crating, and transportation charges. Engines
require four months to rebuild and test. Customers not accepting engines
when ready for shipment are subject to a 25% restocking fee."

[Neil C]

I'll give you this, Franklin, you sure know how to kill a thread.

[Franklin]

Neil C,

You mean like my Formula One thread on the Technical Forum? (The one with currently with 62 replies and 606 views).

[Hyacinth]

Franklin

The vast majority of those sixty-something replies that you seem so proud of are
a) from posters trying to explain why your half-fast ideas won't work,
b) your replies back to those posters implying that they are all ignorant nitwits,
c) your implication that, since the forum administrators don't share your technical "knowledge", that they are incompetent and incapable of doing their job,
and
d) they same repetetive, immaterial, self-serving posts and articles that you've shoved down our throats a dozen times before.

And as for the 600 reads?

It's called "comic relief", Franklin. Look it up.

[Franklin]

Yeah, the comic relief provided by the "ignorant nitwits" who because they have nothing thoughtful, factual, original, or innovative to provide can only resort to ridicule.

[Crash Test]

Franklin: SHUT UP!!

Forum Administration: Could you remove that post of Franklins above, it is spam. If i wanted to be annoyed I'd watch a tape of Tracy winning

[ma]

Ah yes, Frank at his best - vague, long winded, combative, abrasive, ignorant, stupid. Oops, and not original - we've seen that same price list many times before, and it was irrelevent then also.

Frank, you really are a dork !!!!

[Neil C]

Franklin, I wasnt refering to your other posts. I dont have a problem with them. Just this one.

-a happy nitwit

[Old Clunker]

What Andy whispered in Mario's ear when he was supposedly kissing him? It sure wasn't about STP

Old Clunker

[Franklin]

"Ah yes, Frank at his best - vague, long winded, combative, abrasive, ignorant, stupid. Oops, and not original - we've seen that same price list many times before, and it was irrelevent then also.

Frank, you really are a dork !!!!"

Oh, now THAT'S original. As well as a brilliant refutation of my example of how (with airplanes) real people in the real world are really building composite vehicles for much less money than what Renard, Lola, etc are charging.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally posted by Franklin
.....real people in the real world are really building composite vehicles for much less money than what Renard, Lola, etc are charging.

I don't think a Reynard or Lola costs as much as a lear jet does it?

The trouble with comparing cars to planes is that they do different things. Makes the comparison a little irrelavent don't you think? F'rinstance. I want to travel from New York to London. I'm hardly going to use a piper cub or similar am I? I'm going to go for a jet of some kind.

Likewise I want to win the Indy 500. I'm going to use a Lola/Reynard etc. Not a Van Dieman formula Ford 1600.

Anyway, I'm sorry to butt in like this I'll go back to the racer's forum now. Byeee

[Franklin]

Peter,

Learjets still use traditional aluminum construction. However, for some example prices on composite kit planes (the closest counterparts to Reynard, Lola, etc kit cars) checkout http://www.viper-aircraft.com or http://www.twinjet.com (or simply refer to the prices in my posting above).

The primary differences between a CART/F1 tub and a composite aircraft fuselage are engine mountings on the front bulkhead (of the fuselage) instead of the rear bulkhead and the fact a fuselage is typically longer than a tub. In other words, with the tub there is much less distance beyond the cockpit opening. Also with an airplane the wings are mechanically more complex since they have ailerons and moving flaps plus the required control linkages mounted within the wing.

[TimD]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

The aeroplanes that you choose to advertise for free in these forums are not racing machines.

Their R&D costs, for what they are, dramatically tail off once the prototype finishes flight trials.

The designers of these jets are not constantly watching their backs, trying new tweaks, in a never ending effort to avoid being trounced and blown into the weeds by their competitors. Their production runs are longer, thus their unit costs are smaller. They do not risk making a slower than usual model of aeroplane and finding that their order book remains resolutely empty for next season. All of this and more is what Reynard and Lola have to pour dollar after dollar into.

If there is pylon racing for these little things at the Reno air races, then I have yet to see it. However, people DO race aeroplanes, and the top runners are to be found in the P-51D adaptations, the Bearcats and the Sea Furies. These can easily fetch prices in the millions of dollars.

The aircraft that are being publicised in this thread have nothing to do with racing, and everything to do with private sport aviation. Thus, they are more comparable to something like - say - a Chevy Corvette.

And placed next to a Corvette, frankly, they look like a bit of a rip-off.

[Franklin]

TimD,

There are TWO classes at the Reno Air Races which are largely populated by composite airplanes.

These are Sportsman and Formula One. For information on the premier Formula One airplane go to http://www.nemesisnxt.com

P.S.
Both a composite airplane fuselage and an F1/CART/IRL tub are simply a sandwich composite box. The only thing that really changes is the length of the box and the size of the cockpit opening.

[TimD]

Not that the Nemesis was cited above as an example of a production machine....

[Crash Test]

SHHHHHHUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUTTTTTTTTTTTT UUUUUUUUPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Enough is enough....if franky keeps this up, i wont be accountable for my action in breaking someone or something!!!! EEEEKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!

Is this the Indy forum?

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!!!!

[ma]

And Frank still doesn't get it ........