Noise

[Paul V]

There are a lot of views over the noise issue. One is that Castle Combe is too harsh compared to other circuits.

I have run some figures, and for the 2004 season (race day only) have calculated:-

• 8 Meetings - 1494 Cars
  Average cars attending : 186 (151-264)
  Average cars noise tested : 6 (3.2%)
  Average cars failing : 3.6 (1.9%)
  Cars not racing due to noise : 1

Is this really that bad?
How do other circuits compare, does anyone know?

[Tim Falce]

If you test an average of 6 cars and 3.9 fail then that would be and average of nearly 60% failing. I don't know how CC select cars for testing or what their levels are but from my past experience of the circuit the noise Nazis no doubt have a good time there. At the tracks I attend that do noise testing, every car is checked before going on track with the exception of Lydden, who pick the ones out that are percieved to be noisy and test them.

[Paul V]

Don't forget, that at Combe cars are checked via driveby. This means that all cars that are selected, are already over a threshold value.

I would think that by passing 40%+, it shows that the threshold level is set about right.

How much hassle is is for less than 50 cars in a year to be checked at close range than 1500?.

[kickstart]

If you test at CC then you will be noise tested and lots of cars fail that have passed elsewhere.

[Paul V]

Test days are a special case - they are run to circuit rules and not MSA and have to be adhered to tightly. Don't forget, you can clock up many miles on a test day and your silencers efficency can deteriorate significantly.

This often accounts for poor results on race day if they are not repacked inbetween.

One other thing, is that as you are tested prior to going out, your car may not be fully warmed up and, in some cases this will make them noisier.

[ascarmarshal]

At Brands for testing the noise limits are as per blue book with action taken against offenders

[gixxer]

As i've said in another thread cc has always had a major noise problem,even with all the fighting through the courts and backing from many famous names never seems to make the slightest differance,its just an uphill struggle that howard strawford must be credited for, battling all these years, very sad but true

[midgetman]

Noise is a funny thing. I used to work at Combe and my office was actually off the track - about 0.25 miles as the crow flies. Supposedly-silenced cars like Caterhams were a constant noise pollution - they were actually noisier at my office than at the trackside. Even Howard came over and was interested to listen. It was unpleasant to work with the windows open. Yes Gixxer CC has always had a noise problem - it's bloody noisy living nearby.

Look, this is the 21st Century. We all have a need to live peacefully alongside one another. What's wrong with us silencing our engines so that we give less disturbance to the surroundings? Why so selfish, why so much self-righteous posing. Jeez, it's only a bigger silencer. Not even a great deal of money in the grand scheme of things. And if through rigorous noise testing we're all equal, then there's no disadvantage.

A few years ago I helped at scrutineering at a rally at Longleat. Which cars were the noisiest? Not the 300bhp Metro 6R4s, but the boy-racer Peugeot 205s which had about as much power as a fart in a colander.

So everyone that's complaining about the locals - I bet there's things in life that you complain about. Wake up and smell the coffee! If we take steps to reduce the noise of our cars and then work WITH protestors instead of trying to fight them, perhaps we can ALL live together in peace (literally!). This isn't going to go away. ACT - before we're banned (think hunting!)

Max
96dBa - and no slower for it

[dtype38]

migetman... that's only one side of the argument. What about all those spectators who've been watching racing for years and now look on in puzzlement as cars with great big engines purr past. Not to mention all the boy racers who come to watch "real" racing cars and find they all sound like a weak f*rt in tin can. Noise is part of a motor racing meeting just like the smell of horsesh*t is part of a horse racing meeting. Just because a few people find it offensive is no reason to ban it! Maybe the people who complain would like thier own hobbies regulated as tightly as motor sport is and see how they like it.

Anyway.. if you want a particularly silly case of race track noise regulations, go camp at Donnington Park for the weekend. The east midlands airport flights wake you up at about 4.30am, then every 20-30 mins drown out all converstaion, the race commentary, and in particular all the race cars for the rest of the day, and go on until about 11.30 at night. And someone tells you that your car is 1db over the limit and you can't race !!

[Paul V]

One thing that sticks in my mind is from the Eurocar V8s some years ago.
The fastest car on the day was also the quietest by approx 10dB (trackside) from the worst. Not only did it still sound good, it didn't cause offence either.

Dtype38, you cannot compare planes with cars, they have their own problems and have dealt with it over the years. They also have the advantage of big money talking, we don't.

Don't get me wrong, I love the sound of a decent racing engine. I just want them to continue at tracks like Combe.

Anyway time for a

[TomS]

You say you cannot compare planes with cars but after all they both create lots of noise, especially the planes and it seems stupid when there is so much noise created by the planes to stop people racing their relatively quiet cars.

Another point, the majority of race circuits where they well before the residents around the circuits, so people are moving to lets say just down the road from Brands Hatch knowing full well there is a race circuit there and then complaining about the noise.

[midgetman]

>>>>>own hobbies regulated as tightly as motor sport

Ah but we're not are we? How often do we see postings that say "My car passed noise at XYZ and was thrown out at Combe. It ain't fair." Let's get our house in order before we can take on the opposition. Let's make sure all noise testing is accurate, fair and consistent. Remember that noise is not linear - 1dba increase is quite a bit. Remember that we do cause a fair bit of disturbance to the surroundings. The comparison with aircraft is OK only when the circuit is near an airport. Not too many Jumbos at Cadwell.

>>>>>>>Not to mention all the boy racers who come to watch "real" racing cars

And aren't those boy racers the very problem? We're tarnished with the brush of their big-bore exhausts and loud stereos. We all know that a silenced race car is quicker than a drainpipe exhaust-ed Nova. Let's not reduce ourselves to their level.

>>>>>What about all those spectators who've been watching racing for years

What, both of them? Hardly any at Clubbies now, if postings here are to be believed (Combe excepted). Stick it in the programme why the noise is down. They can read. Actually when I went to watch the LMES race the noise worked against me because I couldn't hear the commentary so had no idea what was happening. :-)

TomS is so right and it really p*ss*s me off, but we have no control over these people, we have to work with them. IMHO if we don't change our attitudes we won't have any racing to be noisy at! Track day noise limits anyone? Yeah fine if it means I can go racing. We're the minority here. Can't happen? I repeat: Think smokers and hunting!

[gixxer]

The point is midgetman and what everybody has said if this noise pollution was day in day out then i can understand the complaints,but its not and never has been.HOWARD HAS TRYED ON MANY OCCASIONS TO TALK BUT THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT INTERESTED they just want it stopped

[Chris Griffin]

Boy is this going to a long and heated thread. I've had too much red wine to contribute in the way I would like to right now, but I will in due course! Phraaammm, Phraaammm, Phraaaamm!

[kickstart]

Midgetman, lots of cars cannot be silenced down below maybe 106 - 108dB. We run the biggest and most efficient silencer that will fit (its a single seater and has limited space) and that leaves the noise at variously between 105 - 110dB depending upon the actual noise testing equipment. We spent nearly a whole day last season at CC trying different silencers and that was the best we got.
For me part of the thrill of racing is the noise that something like a DFV makes. I went to BH to watch the historic racing this year with my two nephews and the look on their face when they heard the old Lola and Mclarens open up reminded me why I love racing.
A heavily silenced engine really does nothing for me.

[TomS]

Yes i agree with you Kickstart, things like the Revival at Goodwood and even more modern cars such as F1, one of the best features is the incredible noise they make. After seeing hearing a GT40 warm up in the paddock at Goodwood and also some of the Euroboss cars in the pits at Brands, with a friend how frankly has no interest in motorsport, but that amazed him and made him interested in the racing. In my opinion motorsport is noisy and to take that away is neutering the sport

[MGDavid]

I love the smell of tobacco (and dope too) but that won't stop it being illegal in most places soon. Pardon me being blunt but some people need to take the blinkers off...

[midgetman]

>>>>>>HOWARD HAS TRYED ON MANY OCCASIONS TO TALK BUT THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT INTERESTED

My point, exactly. We're on the same wavelength.

I totally agree about the noise of motor sport being one of the best parts of it, but you're not going to change the view of the environmental lobby or this government. Unless we take our heads out of the sand, at some stage motor sport will die or be banned. We've lost a few sprint courses and hill climbs lately, and I bet the locals aren't too sorry about that.

As soon as there's a whiff of success at Combe, you can be sure that restrictions will be on other circuits even tighter.

Gixxer, in the minds of the whingeing residents the noise IS day in day out. A very good friend of mine (and a hillclimber) moved to Yatton Keynell and complained about the noise from the circuit when she lived one field away from the M4! You're right, there is NO reasoning with these people.

Accept it, embrace change, or die, is my message. Better a heavily-silenced DFV than one sat in a museum. Don't keep shooting the messenger, I agree the residents are b*st*rds but there's more of them than us. We're the m inority and they're not going to go away.

[gixxer]

yes it a very sad world we live in at times,some people just complain for the sake of it.
As you said midgeman as soon as a little succes comes combe's way or a new more high profile race meeting is suggested for the following year they are all up in arms.I just hope this new noise problem order is not inforced otherwise it could end up being the final nail in the coffin that would be a real pity

[dtype38]

Not quite sure how this fits into the argument... but how come people who can afford a real F1 car, or a real GT40 or a real D-type Jag get to race them and everyone says "Wow, isn't that fantastic!" but when we drive at club meetings everyons says "Stop that terrible racket!"

Or did I answer my own question when I said "people who can afford..."

[Adam43]

I love the sig.

[midgetman]

Not sure it is relevant dtype38. I think this whole subject raised its ugly head because the GTs are being hassled about noise at Combe for '05, so it's not just a question of how deep your pocket is.

>>>>>>I don't care what you play, just play it LOUD! - as long as it's not above 105dba!

[gixxer]

I,ve just had a reply from the chief executive of north wilts dc as i had sent a letter supporting combe's cause.
He just says that a number of letters have been recived from both sides for and against,and will be meeting with the circuits advisers to discuss the issue.
An issue that has always been there so he'll just be going over the same old tiresome ground

[dtype38]

midgetman.. OK, I understand your arguments, and you may be surprised that I actually agree with you.. mostly. The most important thing is how to keep motorsport alive and well. I think we just disagree on the tactics to use in the particluar issue of noise. Take the Castle Coombe and GT/05 issue for example. If the anti-noise lobby win this particular situation, it sets a precedent for other councils to look kindly on similar complaints at other tracks. If the racing fraternity simply accept that this ins inevitable and that tighter and tighter noise controls are inevitable then there's not real point in arguing about it. We might as well just put massive silencers on all cars... but what happens if someone complains about the screeching tyre noise.. or the roar of the crowd from a local circuit on a peaceful sunday afternoon. Should we all drive slowly and hold up "quiet" signs. I would argue, therefore, that we should be out there fighting for relaxing the limits. It may not be successful in the end, but it will make the end a hell of a lot further in the future than just accepting defeat.

BTW, the signature below is a quote from a film.

[midgetman]

Before we worry about tactics we need to make sure all our cars comply to the current limits. We've seen and heard it lots of times - car goes to sensitive track (Combe or Goodwood spring to mind) and fails noise. Cue self-righteous explosion "Well it passed at XXXXXXXX"

This may be officialdom not taking the noise test seriously. There's NO WAY some cars are below the limit. Interestingly, they're normally the ones driven to the meeting too! We see some odd readings at sprints - e.g. my standard Montego Turbo was tested at 98dba at Combe (86 everywhere else) but they took the reading when the car was in a queue of cars - LOL

I just think this is a bigger problem than people realise, and as usual compromise and partnership will ultimately win out as long as there's a strong dose of common sense on both sides. And maybe "we're" as lacking of that as "them".

BTW never mind tyre squeal, ACB10 must be the noisiest tyre ever invented. What a racket in a straight line! What with that and straight cut gearboxes.......