The Future for "Historic Festivals"

[Derwent Motorsp]

I wonder if there are now too many "historic/classic festivals" ?
I suspect that just about every circuit has felt the need to have one, drawn by the number of spectators it would hopefully gain. Other venues have tried as well - Cholmondeley Pageant of Power and the Culzean Autoclassica for example. But are there enough cars and racers to cover them all? Certainly some races have had rather poor grids at some events and some festivals have struggled to get decent entries.
Given the financial downturn, will they all survive? I understand the Knockhill Classic Soeedfair is not running next year after failing to get any real historic series to attend in 2008.
Is it better to have fewer but better?

[john ruston]

One Festival a month.Which one do you drop?You know which one I would bin.!

[275 GTB-4]

Whats wrong then??...you can't have too much of a good thing

Hmmmm dosn't the flame always burn brightest just before it go's out!

[Peter Mallett]

Good question and worth revisiting:

I've posed the same question previously and it is difficult. We have so many categories for a start and I feel it may be the cachet of the word "historic" that causes the problem.

The FIA brigade will tell you that historic stops at December 1965, yet the Silverstone Classic is running a Super Tourer race next year (a tribute to David Leslie).

It may be, therefore, that we need to separate the categories and hold "festivals" to suit but for me that is defeatist. Better to consider anything up to (say) 1985 as "historic" and then create bigger events to cope with it.

Then as John says, one for each month from March to September. I've got a feeling that this is where Masters is heading in the UK and Europe but fwiw it will take some serious organisation.

However instead of asking for grids to run two races over a weekend, it would cut individual costs by only running one race for each category, but having enough categories to fill a two day event.

BTW. John assures me he is referring to the Le Mans Classic as the event he would drop.

[john ruston]

Which are the annual major Festivals that can be accessed by majority of owners?
May none
June Dijon
July Silverstone
Aug Oldtimers
Sept Spa
Oct none

Where are the others as assume we are talking about annual events and open entries.The events that put a premium in monetary value on cars if they are acceptable have been discounted eg LMC,Monaco,Goodwood and Mille Milla

[Peter Mallett]

Quite.

You are looking at the same type of event that I would envisage.

There's nothing in March or April, then there's those you mention. But what about Pau?

[john ruston]

Pau is now bi annual and to limited to be called a Festival as you have Masters on same weekend at Brands.They need to be a meeting where there are races available for anyone to enter and no major alternatives the same weekend.This also discounts things like Masters days where all races are organised by one promoter.I hope the three hr race at Snett turns into an early Festival and with the loss of the Donnington meeting it may.It will sort itself as organisers are already worried about numbers for next year.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by john ruston

Pau is now bi annual and to limited to be called a Festival as you have Masters on same weekend at Brands.They need to be a meeting where there are races available for anyone to enter and no major alternatives the same weekend.This also discounts things like Masters days where all races are organised by one promoter.I hope the three hr race at Snett turns into an early Festival and with the loss of the Donington meeting it may.

Who has lost an early May meeting?

Originally Posted by john ruston

It will sort itself as organisers are already worried about numbers for next year.

This is my point about the sniffiness towards post '65 cars. Organise some big meetings on the back of more and diverse grids. Reduce the number of weekends but increase the number of races.

Out of adversity comes despera.......... opportunity.

[john ruston]

I understand Donnington Bank Spring Bank Holiday meeting has gone.An early UK major meeting is needed in mid/end May.Problems start when the major posh meetings clash as Monaco in May and LMC in early July 2010

[Al Weyman]

Peter you are a man after my own heart. I really do not understand this Pre 66 thing as time moves on. My old car is nearly 39 years old and yet still its not 'Historic' enough for the pundits! If when the Pre-66 thing was first set up it rolled forward year by year it would probably be including 80 or even early 90's cars now!

[Peter Mallett]

In truth we're only talking App K which actually does move but I think its only at 1976 at the moment. The problem is that the cut off applied by the organisations is 1965 and I think that was because these cars were deemed to be cheap at the time.

However opening up the years would broaden the scope of a festival and appeal to many more people than they possibly do now.

[john ruston]

Organisers are now moving into the pre 74 date and will need to if Historic Racing is to survive.Rule of thumb is cars should be able to race if more than 30 years old.I fail to understand the need for a 90's Saloon race at next years Silverstone as if they want that it should be attached to a BSCC round.The punters who attend these meetings will understand it and by putting it on at the Festival a real Historic Class will lose out.

[Al Weyman]

Also we (CTRCC) cater for pre-93 tourers so things are in place already to cater for those. The 2 litre formula of post 93 may not be though so I would think there is prehaps scope for those to race in a class of their own but IMHO you would need some seriously deep pockets.

[KA]

I can't see the post-93 2-litre and Supertouring cars fitting that easily into any of the other categories- As you say, it won't be cheap racing though.

I reckon there's potential in the future for this to stand on it's own as a historic category, much like the Group C sportscars, with the emphasis on original cars, presented as they were in period. There certainly seem to be plenty of them still being raced currently which could be a good omen for the future.

I can't help thinking next year at Silverstone is a bit early though...

[KA]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

However opening up the years would broaden the scope of a festival and appeal to many more people than they possibly do now.

I reckon opening up the years is essential, especially if you accept that the 'nostalgia factor' is a big part of the draw for historics- I'm 41, and first started to attend race meetings in the early/mid-80's as a teenager, and I've always enjoyed historics right from the start. However, as much as I love seeing them, the nostalgia factor of 50's/60's cars, representing a period of racing that happened before I was born, can't be quite as strong for me as it is with something like the Group C sportscars, because I've only ever seen the older cars raced as historic cars.

[Tainan]

Agree with KA above.
Why can't different festivals focus on different periods?

[Peter Mallett]

It's a good idea, but why not have a two day festival covering all the periods?

Whatever age you are there's going to be something for you and it would have the effect of cutting down the number of races for each category thereby making things cheaper for the entrant/driver who can still enjoy the weekend.

[Al Weyman]

We do, its called a CTCRC meeting! :-)

[Peter Mallett]

um yes.

[John Turner]

Al, I'm really struggling with your post. Would you kindly list the races/groups and eras covered by CTCRC meetings. Whilst I admire your spirit and enthusiasm for it, I think that you might find that you have some gaps in Peter's suggested scenario!

[Peter Mallett]

Actually I have suggested elsewhere that the CTCRC can provide categories to fill the gaps in the festivals as they are at the moment.

[John Turner]

Yes, that appears to be a much better assessment of what the CTCRC can offer, Peter.

[Al Weyman]

OK then.
Classics and Historics for the pre 66's.

Post Historics Touring Cars for up to the 1st Jan 74. (I run the old camaro there)

Group One Touring Cars for up to the 1st Jan 83 (where my IROC-Z runs)

Pre-93 Touring cars as the name suggests up to 1st Jan 93 and the period before BTCC went silly.

Finally our own catch all series the Classic Modified Saloons which caters for Group A/2 machinery and others.

[Ian Sowman]

What about the sports cars and single-seaters?

[John Turner]

Exactly, Ian; Al, this is not just about saloons! And we haven't mentioned anything pre-war, either. If we were to do as suggested by Peter, I think that we would need two pre-war races; one for single seaters, and one for sports cars. To be realistic, we'd be struggling to cater for everyone in a single two day festival.