Race stoppages - are they all necessary? (plus a bit of CSCC, Brands Hatch)

[Tim Falce]

I didn't say anyone was lazy. Those marshals on 22 and 23 had a very strenuous time stuffing the doughnuts I took to them.

[EvilPumpkin]

hey, takes more calories to eat a donut than they actually have in them. Or was that celery.............

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by Austinspace75

This isn't really going to make the OP feel any better. But its worth adding if someone can confirm it.

I was at the meeting (competing) but missed that race... From what I heard, the car that dropped it into the gravel had indeed gone off earlier in the race at the same spot... but the second time he did it, he actually managed to avoid the gravel initially, only to then beach it properly by reversing the car into the gravel accidentally when trying to get away again. Nice one.

I didn't see it either but that's what I heard as well, I will let his tyres down next time I see him.

[John Turner]

Right, folks - good discussion but probably better discussed here:-

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=106167e

Clearly this issue extends well beyond Historic racing and this has certainly gone way off the topic of this particular thread.

Edit:- Oh, and for the record, I started typing that before the last 3 posts were posted!! Yes, a slow typer!

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by John Turner

Right, folks - good discussion but probably better discussed here:-

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=106167e

Clearly this issue extends well beyond Historic racing and this has certainly gone way off the topic of this particular thread.

Edit:- Oh, and for the record, I started typing that before the last 3 posts were posted!! Yes, a slow typer!

Well two of them are sort of on topic

[Tim Falce]

I had an excellent race, and it was nice have a dice with more than one car. I made up around 8 places at the start into Paddock before a few of the quicker Morgans regained their places. Most of the rest of the shortened race was doing battle with Colin Jones in an MGA twin cam and Glyn Davies in his Morgan. I swapped places with Glyn a couple of times and when I finally managed to get along side Colin into Paddock in my excitement I went from 5th gear to 2nd accidentally and the back of the car stepped out wildly, luckily the clutch stayed in one piece, and Colin was able to hold position on me.
Just a shame that the pole man was punted at the second corner by an over zealous Morgan

[jellison]

Originally Posted by EvilPumpkin

Well looked like a rant to me.

As for actually racing, no. I'm one of those lazy people who doesn't bother dragging your car out of a gravel trap and I arrived in this thread as a result of people complaining about your post.

I was going to compose a long winded reply here - but as you have so many fragile individuals on here, I won't bother.

Oh stuff it I will....

How can anyone Complain about a general discussion like this.

Discussion is the whole point of Discussion forums. It seems to me that no one can moan on ANY level on this forum about anything about the Officialdom of a race meeting (as if they can do no wrong)!

I do like alot of things about 10/10ths but this is the petty side of it that really puts people off, you just CANNOT have a lively debate on here.

Honestly, unless you are the one's spending huge amounts in travel costs, race prep, fuel, entry fees and general maintence of the cars then you do not know where ANY of the competitors on here are coming from.

And to have this view that anything anti the general running of a meeting is Verbotten is frankly Dictatorial.

Alot of this ever increasing stopping of meeting and never restarting them is due (IMHO) to the ever more number of event being squeezed into the average days racing - 18 races crammed into this 2 day meet - so you can see why they er on the not restarting side!

Complaining about dodgy race stoppages is generally done through the respective race organisers secretary not individually. We had one of these last year I think and did get some redress for a rubbish decision - they sent us all 50 quid (which was OK as the field was HUGE), but we would have all rather have not had it and had a restart after all the expense, time and money in getting to the meeting from all over the UK (and sometime further a field).

Anyway let get off the Red flag thing - the Thoroughbreds was a Great Race till the chap binned it / "reversed in the Gravel".

Mike H did say he almost pooped his pants when he as the race leader, dropped down paddock with the MG spinning and not totally sure which way to go!!

[jellison]

Originally Posted by falcemob

Just a shame that the pole man was punted at the second corner by an over zealous Morgan

Odd how you one out - I did not even see any of this coming up to Druids in third (Maximum Attack!)

[EvilPumpkin]

Originally Posted by jellison

I was going to compose a long winded reply here - but as you have so many fragile individuals on here, I won't bother.

Oh stuff it I will....

How can anyone Complain about a general discussion like this.

Discussion is the whole point of Discussion forums. It seems to me that no one can moan on ANY level on this forum about anything about the Officialdom of a race meeting (as if they can do no wrong)!

I do like alot of things about 10/10ths but this is the petty side of it that really puts people off, you just CANNOT have a lively debate on here.

Honestly, unless you are the one's spending huge amounts in travel costs, race prep, fuel, entry fees and general maintence of the cars then you do not know where ANY of the competitors on here are coming from.

And to have this view that anything anti the general running of a meeting is Verbotten is frankly Dictatorial.

Response by PM to avoid derailing thread.

[Austinspace75]

Just 'cos more than 1 person complains, it doesn't mean they're right or that they're the majority.

Instead of complaining about someone's post, they should engage with the discussion and make their point.

I can see this thread getting closed/red flagged. And it won't be for a good reason.

[terence]

Originally Posted by jellison

He is a he/she - OMG

It had to be you who would stoop so low. The answer is No.I mearly included that for Claire's sake.

[terence]

Falcie,I dont mind if you disagree with me But I'm not siding with anyone,just a view aired.I fully understand how you feel,getting the car ready during the week,load it up,get it there all for seven and a half minuits,s'why I dont do that sort of racing anymore,if it dont last for at least an hour,you'll not see me entered,been there etc.

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by jellison

Discussion is the whole point of Discussion forums. It seems to me that no one can moan on ANY level on this forum about anything about the Officialdom of a race meeting (as if they can do no wrong)!

I do like alot of things about 10/10ths but this is the petty side of it that really puts people off, you just CANNOT have a lively debate on here.

And to have this view that anything anti the general running of a meeting is Verbotten is frankly Dictatorial.

I know that EP has responded by PM, but since (and I think that both Zef and Tim would agree) that I am probably the one who spends most time on here modding this forum, I don't think that your statement accurately reflects the way it is run. In fact we do have lively debates on here and I think most would have sympathy with your view of race stoppages; I suggest it is probably more the way you expressed it that may have caused some disquiet. Now let's move back to the thread topic.

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by Austinspace75

I can see this thread getting closed/red flagged. And it won't be for a good reason.

I will be jolly miffed if we haven't gone past 75% of the thread if it does.

[carrera]

It does seem odd that we race to different rules and regulations at the same meeting. We were in the Tin Tops and had 2 pace car periods, both of which worked very well indeed.

[Colin McKay]

I'm sure part of the reasoning behind the decision to red flag depends on whether gravel has been carried onto the track. If not, then a safety car is fine but if the track has to be swept then obviously the race stops. For the second year running, gravel on paddock hill has cost me a windscreen.

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by terence bower

Falcie,I dont mind if you disagree with me But I'm not siding with anyone,just a view aired.I fully understand how you feel,getting the car ready during the week,load it up,get it there all for seven and a half minuits,s'why I dont do that sort of racing anymore,if it dont last for at least an hour,you'll not see me entered,been there etc.

Not sure where I disagreed with you but I am terribly confused now anyway. You don't always escape with the longer races though do you. You can pay a fortune and only get 5 hours of a 6 hour race

[terence]

Yeah but there is more chance of a Safety Car being released if things go wrong.

[Eddy V]

It may be a silly remark, but they should get those quarterd flags (yellow-black) back again. No crock with safety cars, no need for red flags.
But I'm only a marshal, what do I know.

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by Eddy V

It may be a silly remark, but they should get those quarterd flags (yellow-black) back again. No crock with safety cars, no need for red flags.
But I'm only a marshal, what do I know.

I seem to remember they took quite a lot of ranting before we got rid of them.

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by falcemob

You don't always escape with the longer races though do you. You can pay a fortune and only get 5 hours of a 6 hour race

Terry didn't even get 5 !!

And I would agree with Eddy on those flags (as long as you have sensible drivers)

[rogerwills]

Originally Posted by jellison

OK - let me reword that.

The people making the decision stiffed us not the organising club. We sat on the grid for 5 minutes. When they could have either had that car out of there by then and restarted it. Or just left it they in the first place (the car was a MG high up the Hill Paddock just at the top of the gravel trap) and put som yellows out.

No bloody need to stop it. Club racers are constantly getting stiffed JUST past half way in meetings.

I went off a few years back at Donnington (hold my hand up), at the first corner at Donnington on about lap 4 or something way before half distance but the kept it running a few more laps with my car in th gravel, UNTIL just past half the number of required laps and then through teh red flags and then obviously did not restart it. If that is not shafting people out of our hard earn money I do not know what is. They were just to dame lazy to stop it early and drag me out and restart it a few laps shorter.

It is endemic in UK Club Motorsport now.

Don't forget that most of the people out there letting us have fun are volunteers. They may just stop coming one day......

[Austinspace75]

Originally Posted by rogerwills

Don't forget that most of the people out there letting us have fun are volunteers. They may just stop coming one day......

I'm sure that isn't forgotten. But fair point. However, being a volunteer doesn't excuse incompetence if it is found to exist. Drivers put their trust into marshalls because of their uncanny ability to deal competently with difficult situations. The same should be expected of those kind enough to volunteer in the organisation/running of the meeting.

In the same way that drivers depend on the volunteers to have their fun, the volunteers, who I presume do it because they like doing it (and thank god they do), depend on the drivers to fund the sport and turn up in with their cars.

[John Turner]

Title changed to reflect the majority of the posts.

[zefarelly]

a well considered rant is welcome in my view, but unfounded accusations and playground slanging matches generally leave one shouting at a brick wall.

we've had more than one super rant here in recent months and if its constructively made in a considered fashion it will generate sensible responses and can actually help steam dissipate and practical solutions be achieved.

I thinks its actually been proven that some powers that be, and very nice men(and wimmin) who happen to be senior officials read and occaisionally post as well (its was John wot told me to say that!)

I wasn't at Brands, but the first 2 things that struck me where, did anyone have a chat with the driver? did his car break? was it 'over driving'? perhaps a polite/light hearted word in his ear from the individual race organiser might have prompted an appology, doesn't get your 5 laps back but if everyone learns something positive then at least its less likely to happen again.