[FIA GT] Should FIA GT and LMES merge?

[Asa]

Well, it seems that:

1. They are competing for entries in the GT classes,
2. Both are run by SRO,
3. In North America there is just the ALMS, so could that example be followed in Europe?

Maybe an 8 race series with the Spa 24 hours retained from FIA GT and both Monza and Silverstone rounds to be 1000km races.

Gentlemen (and Ladies, if any), your thoughts?

[Adam43]

Possible. Although there are full grids in both at the moment, there is no need, IMHO. Perhaps it would be nice though.

The main problem, as I see it, is that race winners in the FIAGT would become class winners in LMES. It is nice for the GTs to have their moment in the (full) limelight.

In addition what would you do with weight penalties? And there is the Mazza question!

[cybersdorf]

Yes of course they could merge. Since LMES also "harbours" the prototypes, we could then separate the prototypes and form a new series for them, and run the FIA and ACO GTs in separate classes as the regulations are not (yet?) identical. It would make it all so much clearer, and easier to follow.

[TerryC]

Originally Posted by cybersdorf

we could then separate the prototypes and form a new series for them

Would this not be the same as reviving the now defunct FIA Sports Car Championship series?

[alfan]

Sounds nice, but when the races should be held ? During Super Racing Weekend events ? There could be some problems with racing weekend schedule. SRW includes also WTCC and other chapionships. FIA GT races are only 3 hrs long, and they fit well. 1000km LMES-style races will be to long for sunday. I think, WTCC is now most important for organizers, and they want it in attratcive daytime. So, Sportscar and GT race will have to be either moved to saturday, or shorter. And I dont want that.

And, if this will be different events, SRW will be much less atrractive. It's also not a good idea, it'll be hard to replace FIA GT with other atrractive champioship.

[Asa]

I think WTCC and FIA GT will go their separate ways in the not too distant future anyway. WTCC is already shaping up to be very good (looking to increase the length of its races, too) and the merged LMES/FIA GT series will be (on paper, anyway) attractive enough to stand on its own two feet. I think KSO and SRO will not be too bothered if they can do things on their own.

But I don't think the new merged series should get rid of the prototypes. Every race should become a real Le Mans type race by itself.

[BSchneiderFan]

But will teams currently running in FIA GTs really want to give up their chance at overall wins, especially in races like the Spa 24 Hours? I don't see a problem with the FIA series and the LMES co-existing, at least at the moment. If it ain't broke...

[jase]

Originally Posted by TerryC

Would this not be the same as reviving the now defunct FIA Sports Car Championship series?

I think Cy's post was tongue in cheek.

IMO there is enough entrants/differences between the series to keep the seperate, wait until teams have to choose one or t'other then we'll see what one survives.

[paul-collins]

Originally Posted by cybersdorf

Yes of course they could merge. Since LMES also "harbours" the prototypes, we could then separate the prototypes and form a new series for them, and run the FIA and ACO GTs in separate classes as the regulations are not (yet?) identical.

Or you could just run them together, and flag the GTs off after 3 hours. Give them a special (green and white?) checker flag.

Better yet, start the GTs from pit lane after three hours so that they all end at 6 hours!

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Asa

Well, it seems that:

1. They are competing for entries in the GT classes,
2. Both are run by SRO,
3. In North America there is just the ALMS, so could that example be followed in Europe?

Maybe an 8 race series with the Spa 24 hours retained from FIA GT and both Monza and Silverstone rounds to be 1000km races.

Gentlemen (and Ladies, if any), your thoughts?

1. Are they really? How many LMES GT team's could afford to travel around the world in FIA GT events?

2. Well, SRO may promote the LMES but it is an ACO series that was set up specifically to promote prototype (and Le Mans style) racing in Europe. FIA GT was set-up to promote, guess what, GT racing!

3. You also have Grand-Am

[jhansen]

Quote from JAG: "1. Are they really? How many LMES GT team's could afford to travel around the world in FIA GT events?"


Or the prototype teams for that matter.


Quote from JAG: "2. Well, SRO may promote the LMES but it is an ACO series that was set up specifically to promote prototype (and Le Mans style) racing in Europe. FIA GT was set-up to promote, guess what, GT racing!"


Agreed. They are separate and promote separate ideals of racing. They also cater to different teams as pointed out in your first point.


Quote from JAG: "3. You also have Grand-Am"


Ah, but we also have the Maserati MC12!

[GNM1]

From a team point of view, I can tell you that it wouldn't be a good idea to merge the series - for some of the reasons some of you have pointed out, and for other financial baed reasons. Currently the 2 series work well together; there is more of a 'common understanding' now beween the ACO and FIA which helps so that's a step in the right direction in terms of changng the cars to run in the correct 'spec' for each series (we are running our cars in both series..) but overall it works well as 2 stand-alone series.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by GNM1

From a team point of view, I can tell you that it wouldn't be a good idea to merge the series - for some of the reasons some of you have pointed out, and for other financial baed reasons. Currently the 2 series work well together; there is more of a 'common understanding' now beween the ACO and FIA which helps so that's a step in the right direction in terms of changng the cars to run in the correct 'spec' for each series (we are running our cars in both series..) but overall it works well as 2 stand-alone series.

Welcome to the forum GNM1.

Do you not find it a little worrying that the FIA GT series is seemingly moving to more of a sprint based format, particulalrly for teams who rely on pay drivers?

Will you need an MC12 or Aston to win in that series sooner rather than later?

[SALEEN S7R]

I dont know about "needing" a MC12 or Aston to win JAG. The Saleen S7R is very competitve in the series, more competitive than the DBR9 will be IMO, sure the DBR9's outperformed the ACEMCO Saleen at Sebring, but not on pace. A sprint format suits the S7R's, so I dont see any reason why they coudnt beat off the DBR9's, and perhaps the MC12's. And JAG, as has been widely publicised, the FIA GT championship is becoming more and more professional, and there are now in fact very few pay drivers in the championship, read Stephane Ratel's speech and he too backs this up. The FIA GT championship IMO is going in the right direction at the moment.

[Rick McAllen]

IMO merging the series would be a great idea. If we could bundle all the potential interest for sportscar racing in one strong, competitive and exciting series with a good media package, sooner or later this series is gonna attract more factories making the series even more competitive. We could have new, amazing prototypes each year, instead of five year old cars dominating everything, and sportscar racing could return and go beyond, to where it was in 1999.
Just my wishful thoughts...

[Fab]

Originally Posted by GNM1

From a team point of view, I can tell you that it wouldn't be a good idea to merge the series - for some of the reasons some of you have pointed out, and for other financial baed reasons. Currently the 2 series work well together; there is more of a 'common understanding' now beween the ACO and FIA which helps so that's a step in the right direction in terms of changng the cars to run in the correct 'spec' for each series (we are running our cars in both series..) but overall it works well as 2 stand-alone series.

Thanks for your point of view ! We're more than happy to welcome the Graham Nash Motorsport on Ten-Tenths !

What is the interrest for GNM to enter cars in both series ? Each one must have its own advantages : what are they, for a team ?

[Fab]

My 2 p, from people wtaching the races : the series allow fans to chose on the basis of their own taste, enduros or more "long sprint" races. As Chris mentionned it above, it let place to cars that fit more to three-hours races (Saleens), and on the other hand cars that are more successul on long races.

And FIA-GT let the GT cars win the overall in prestigious races (Spa).

"Le mieux est l'énemi du bien" = "the better is the enemy of the good" (don't know the equivalent in english) ; it means that always change things to what seems better can lead to go to worse...

[brielga]

Merging is indeed a tempting ideaif we look at today's very well populated fields and just a handful of factory teams...would it be affordable in the long run for privateers? If it would happen anyway it should be a combination of real endurance (1000km+ races) and some "sprints" of 3 hours. In any case, would the ACo agree in LM giving points for such a championship???

[bernard b]

brielga pointed out the main difference between the 2 series : LMES is more "long endurance races" while FIA gt stay with sprint races (+/- half length)

[The Badger]

I realise that it would be great to see everyone co-opperateing together . But I remember when the Fia got involved with Le Mans before . Le Mans started the LMES so they should be let run it the way they want too . Otherwise we could have all kinds of crap again . Anyway , as mentioned above . Lmes is about endurance while the Fia GT is more about sprint racing .

If is isnt broken ..... leave it alone I think .

[Fab]

Originally Posted by The Badger

But I remember when the Fia got involved with Le Mans before.

... and lost les Hunaudières as a straight line, gain fences all around, gigantic gravel traps, public away, and 10 years of problems, including two years of NDE... there's always possible Balestres around...

nothing against safety rules here, don't take me wrong on this

[Dani Filth]

those would have happend . even without FIA .
on the subject .. at the moment . both series look strong . with good grids . .so i don't see the need

[fangio]

It looked like they were getting close with identical rgeulations, until the FIA accepted the MC12 for the FIA GT series, which the ACO will never do.

SRO is involved with the LMES but it's run on behalf of the ACO by Patrick Peter.

It's really two different formats: FIA is moving towards shorter races and the LMES towards longer races, so I think they can exist together.
Also the FIA GT is getting very professional/expensive; for privateers driving 5 LMES races is cheaper per hour than the FIA GT series.
Especially GT racing is getting to be too expensive; they must introduce some sort of cost control.....

[GNM1]

Hi Saleen S7R
Good choice of 'Handle' by the way!
The S7 is indeed competitive. We can be up there and ahead of the DBR9 - and with the right driver package it is possible...we have made a lot of changes to our 2 Saleen's for this year - chassis work, dampers, Pirelli tyres - and we'll see how it pans out. The DBR9 is abrand new car and Prodrive have enormous resources so it will be interesting to see how we match up against them at Silverstone for instance (FIA GT). We do all our development independantly from the factory - we are pretty much there with reliability but nwe have to constantly improve to stay at the front. Cheers

[GNM1]

My pleasure - thanks to you.
Regards your question about entering both series, we enter FIA GT because in our opinion it is the pinnacle championship of world GT racing. We can win races outright and show we can run competetive Saleen's against the world's best GT cars. We enter LMES for Le Mans entry, and for winning 1000kms races - there's a big difference in tactics but essentially both are sprint races from lights to flag. Thanks