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Old 1 Feb 2018, 16:21 (Ref:3797494)   #211
insane014
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Good performance on slow tracks could also be attributed to good low RPM power delivery. Maybe Honda didn't have the top end but it did deliver when exiting turns and building up speed. We will never know.
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Old 2 Feb 2018, 07:03 (Ref:3797671)   #212
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Good performance on slow tracks could also be attributed to good low RPM power delivery. Maybe Honda didn't have the top end but it did deliver when exiting turns and building up speed. We will never know.
Don't worry about knowing, speculation & supposition are what fuels the forums!
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Old 15 Feb 2018, 15:55 (Ref:3801609)   #213
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So Torro Rosso is just like a few others in that they have started to drop some info such as this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKI32W4yJTQ

A few points. Note, they say RA618H. This is the designation for the 2018 Honda engine and not the 2017 engine. Between TR saying they have mated and test fired the 2018 engine with the 2018 chassis and reports elsewhere that testing by Honda on the 2018 engine are going well, I think this mostly puts to bed the potential for TR starting the season with the 2017 engine.

Of course, lets see how things go in pre-season testing!

Given each driver is limited to three ICE per season now, there will be limited opportunities to introduce significant improvements during the season. I am reading elsewhere that they have a planned mid-season upgrade that is expected to be a significant change, but also something they are testing right now. So it sounds like the early 2018 spec is mostly set and they are working on a mid season spec. Also it looks like the launch spec is not identical to, but based upon the unraced "spec 4" concept from last season (no reason to ignore other improvements that may not have been in last years spec 4).

Saying this sounds like this is another full re-engineering of the engine. No, this all is supposed to be evolutions of the base 2017 design. I expect much work was focused on combustion as well as MGU-H (particularly reliability).

Oh! And the photos are of the 2017 engine. They are not showing the 2018 engine on purpose (as many details can be gleaned from just the exterior). Honda did however release some interesting info in the Japanese press around the 2017 engine awhile back. They are probably more open than any other manufacture at the moment.

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Old 25 Mar 2018, 10:06 (Ref:3810621)   #214
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More of the same for Honda in 2018. Just got different paint on the car.

Three engines for the year is going to hurt.
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Old 25 Mar 2018, 20:08 (Ref:3810713)   #215
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Two engines per race will hurt even more...
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Old 26 Mar 2018, 01:12 (Ref:3810776)   #216
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what they need is shorter races (and better drivers)

then making the engine stronger would really be the only major thing left on the to-do list
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Old 26 Mar 2018, 17:26 (Ref:3811002)   #217
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So I have read (details on the web before first race, so this is not a retcon of the facts) that Honda and TR agreed to focus first on reliability and then performance. That the engine they started with this year is NOT last years engine, but an evolution AND that performance may be about the same as when they ended last year.

That it may be mid-season (a long way off!) before we see the version that is expected to show significantly more performance. I would assume the timing is based upon the lifespan of the first engines as well as completion of testing that shows both reliability and power.

It is also my understanding that the current engine also is using the basic MGU-H design and supplier as last year. I am sure it has improvements, but in general it is the same basic concept from the same supplier. McLaren Applied Technologies (MAT) who is the supplier for the standard ECU also supplied much of the hybrid system for the Honda engine. I don't know if the MGU-H is supplied by MAT or someone else. But I have read that Honda is expected to switch to a new in-house MGU-H mid-year. So this may indicate they are still using a MAT supplied MGU-H, or the MGU-H uses a number of components that are still supplied by MAT????

I believe the failure for Gasly was his MGU-H (which has been the weak point for Honda). There is evidence that riding the curbs was a factor in this (not saying this was the fault of Gasly). Look at this video and note that the two initial puffs of smoke come immediately after a good knock from the curb...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3JhR1qMh_8

Regardless of how many and who's fingers are in the pot, it is up to Honda to fix the MGU-H issue.

Hartley had a tire puncture which ended up damaging the underbody of the car, so it was never going to be able to maintain pace after that.

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Old 27 Mar 2018, 06:35 (Ref:3811152)   #218
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Taxi645 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Just a general note/reminder: you are only limited to three engines if you want to avoid grid penalties. If your priority is to aggressively develop the engine, grid penalties are less of an issue.
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Old 27 Mar 2018, 07:12 (Ref:3811158)   #219
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Just a general note/reminder: you are only limited to three engines if you want to avoid grid penalties. If your priority is to aggressively develop the engine, grid penalties are less of an issue.
I have a feeling they will be very very aggressive on development and take ALOt if penalities this season to have a decent engine for Red Bull next season.

Toro Rosso at the end of the day will just be a test mule for the Snr team
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Old 27 Mar 2018, 08:23 (Ref:3811167)   #220
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I have a feeling they will be very very aggressive on development and take ALOt if penalities this season to have a decent engine for Red Bull next season.

Toro Rosso at the end of the day will just be a test mule for the Snr team
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Old 27 Mar 2018, 13:52 (Ref:3811251)   #221
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Lewis himself has admitted he is already driving with the new engine limit in mind. Doesn't surprise me that Honda are also focusing on more reliability at this stage
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Old 28 Mar 2018, 17:53 (Ref:3811559)   #222
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Mekola should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridMekola should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridMekola should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
That limit of engines is absurd, since it does the contrary of the motive it was installed. Generates more costs to the team, not a cap.
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Old 28 Mar 2018, 18:14 (Ref:3811566)   #223
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Just a general note/reminder: you are only limited to three engines if you want to avoid grid penalties. If your priority is to aggressively develop the engine, grid penalties are less of an issue.
And if your chassis and drivers mean you are going to be near the back anyway...
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Old 28 Mar 2018, 19:21 (Ref:3811580)   #224
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And if your chassis and drivers mean you are going to be near the back anyway...
Exactly... So, develop the hell out of the engine this season, swallow every penalty thrown at you to ensure that everything will be fine for RBR Honda in 2019.
(It's funny how a Bull can become a sacrificial lamb!)
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Old 28 Mar 2018, 21:04 (Ref:3811601)   #225
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And if your chassis and drivers mean you are going to be near the back anyway...
Chassis i expect is good, as are most cars James Key is i/c of.
Drivers? Hardly the worst line up on the grid.
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