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Old 13 Mar 2018, 05:09 (Ref:3807681)   #586
V8 Fireworks
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Originally Posted by Compromised View Post
all this "progress" will leave a niche for fans who love big and loud petrol cars,
Big and loud petrol cars are only even tenable for the non-rich in Australia because our petrol is SO much cheaper compared to countries like Italy. They love their cars too, and they glady choose a more sensible and sustainable 1.4L Fiat 124 Abarth as their way to enjoy them.

You don't need a oversized 6.2L engine just to have fun!
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Old 13 Mar 2018, 05:33 (Ref:3807683)   #587
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V8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Why must we change?
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the idea of Volvo V8 Supercars and Mercedes-Benz V8 Supercars (and ideally Jaguar, BMW and all the rest that sell V8 performance sedans)...

But surely we have to accept that was trialled and sadly it failed and the Supercars series really needs to come up with a different idea instead now, else turn into a irrelevant one make series of Holden Vectra, sorry, Commodore sports sedans...
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Old 13 Mar 2018, 05:39 (Ref:3807685)   #588
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Originally Posted by peckstar View Post
Ive been watching the 12 hour thread since Gt3 began and they debate was there then and is no closer now, in fact it is further away.

there is no hypothetical because it wont happen and the fans wont follow because it wont interest them.
Haven't you been preaching the the growth crowd, media, driver/team and public interest in the Bathurst 12 Hour since 2016?

I am not sure how those two comments align?

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Production cars are running in 3 weeks at bathurst, it is almost as quick as TCR, Its just a support category.
Are categories roles at events designated based on their lap times?
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Old 13 Mar 2018, 06:16 (Ref:3807687)   #589
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Originally Posted by Compromised View Post
Why must we change?

I never hear anyone at the drags say they wish the fuelers stopped using nitro as it's not road relevant or fans at the dirt track say they wish the sprint cars had more of a sedan body like their daily...

Yes Supercars may be seen as archaic but that's what we should embrace - all this "progress" will leave a niche for fans who love big and loud petrol cars, race cars that test the driver (no aids) etc

What makes Supercars stand out amongst a sea of underpowered or over-aided race cars is the very thing we must strive to maintain.

Make the cars cheaper to run and build as always intended, loosen the rules around manufacturer permission to use body shapes etc and come what may
Hit the nail on the head right there.
Racing cars should be loud (just look at the negative impact the F1 cars created with their "quiet" engines and the efforts to make them sound like real race cars again)
Racing cars should be spectacular and outrageously more powerful than what people drive to and from work, otherwise you may as well go and watch the desperate commuters dicing their way across the Harbour bridge at peak hour.
It's all about the overwhelming sensation of watching and hearing these powerful "monsters" and drivers challenging the limits and each other at speeds unimaginable in ordinary commuter cars.

Last edited by Backagain; 13 Mar 2018 at 06:25.
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Old 13 Mar 2018, 07:23 (Ref:3807706)   #590
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The "lap-time" argument again, how ridiculous.

Just look at the BTCC, by far the premier series in the UK, they are slower than more than a few other tin-top categories, including one of their support acts, doesn't hurt them though.

Until "Supercars", the ATCC cars were never that fastest tin-tops in Australia, far slower in fact, yet they were still the most popular show in the land.

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Originally Posted by Compromised View Post
I never hear anyone at the drags say they wish the fuelers stopped using nitro as it's not road relevant or fans at the dirt track say they wish the sprint cars had more of a sedan body like their daily...
Drag racing doesn't sprout itself as the "Australian Touring Car Championship", that is why the category must be road relevant
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Old 13 Mar 2018, 07:24 (Ref:3807707)   #591
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Originally Posted by D.R.T. View Post
Haven't you been preaching the the growth crowd, media, driver/team and public interest in the Bathurst 12 Hour since 2016?

I am not sure how those two comments align?



Are categories roles at events designated based on their lap times?
Im sorry you lost me there, can you explain better?

Most categories however are designated based on lap times, they either have a parity/BOP system or a category system

But TCR no matter what will still be just a few seconds quicker than a production car. would have 4 or 5 key tin top categories ahead of them including 50 year old TCM which are really popular with the crowd
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Old 13 Mar 2018, 08:57 (Ref:3807713)   #592
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People need to realise that the Australian motor racing demographic is quite different to the European/British demographic in what attracts them as spectators. What works over there isn't necessarily going to work over here. Part of that is due to the manufacturer rivalries and their strong spectator followings which are more diverse over there and thus has allowed for a lot more categories to flourish as a result of those heavily supported manufacturers. In Aus it really is just Ford vs Holden and so that bit of passion which exists as a result of the brand doesn't exist when Audi, BMW, KIA etc decide to enter in a new category, and so these series need to catch audience attention with other factors such as speed and excitement. With TCR it lacks that initial "wow" factor due to their speed and platform and without any true brand support it will be an uphill battle to get people to the gates to watch.
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Old 13 Mar 2018, 12:18 (Ref:3807742)   #593
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In Aus it really is just Ford vs Holden and so that bit of passion which exists as a result of the brand doesn't exist when Audi, BMW, KIA etc decide to enter in a new category, and so these series need to catch audience attention with other factors such as speed and excitement.
Have you checked an inner city multi-storey car park?

It's more likely to have Audis, BMWs, Jaguar and Mercedes in it. Supercars needs to tap into the yuppie market somehow.
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Old 13 Mar 2018, 18:18 (Ref:3807774)   #594
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Compromised should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Yuppies show up at the GP, beyond that their engagement with motorsport is nil.

Once you free yourself from the notion that the grid must reflect the parking lot, you'll see that the "core" long term sustainable fans seem to prefer purpose built race cars with little to no road relevance

And I take your point about the series failing, I used to believe that myself. But it's all relative - as mixer, peckstar etc have said above, motorsport as a whole is down. It would be erroneous and possibly fatal to see our regulations as a cause of that and spice them up to try and regain market share - it's not going to happen.

Last edited by Compromised; 13 Mar 2018 at 18:32.
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Old 13 Mar 2018, 20:47 (Ref:3807802)   #595
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NZ's first TCR - VW Golf
http://www.drivesouth.co.nz/news/lat...-for-otago-duo

How many TCRs are in Australia now?
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Old 13 Mar 2018, 22:04 (Ref:3807815)   #596
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Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Just the Audi at this stage.
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Old 13 Mar 2018, 22:41 (Ref:3807823)   #597
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Originally Posted by Mixer View Post
At the price Audi are charging for the RS3 TCR, I would be too...

And the i30N isn't homologated yet, but they are probably the first manufacturer I would want to dive in.

It would be GREAT if we got some of these manufacturers into a series.

Could TCR be the next thing for Australia?
Hyundai is homologated.
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Old 13 Mar 2018, 22:51 (Ref:3807825)   #598
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Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
There's still a few non-works efforts that aren't.
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Old 13 Mar 2018, 23:09 (Ref:3807831)   #599
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Originally Posted by Umai Naa View Post
Isn't GTS effectively GT4, TCR, and a homegrown class, all combined?

Or is that the IMSA one?
Yes it is combined, which I think would be the only way to get enough interest to replace the series that once had two cars that made up 1/3 of the total car market (roughly).
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Old 15 Mar 2018, 04:46 (Ref:3808095)   #600
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Casper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridCasper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Make the cars cheaper to run and build as always intended, loosen the rules around manufacturer permission to use body shapes etc and come what may
That's easy to do but the vested interests who it would damage will cry like a two year old who has had its toys taken away from it so it won't happen. Even the most optimistic fans are beginning to admit that the present status quo will not survive and the whole idea needs putting through a blender to see what falls out. The present franchise system and the way the cars are regulated and built is one of the reasons that is inevitably going to lead to its demise. Unfortunately in professional motor sport there are a group of people who see that making money trumps entertainment and they will hang on by their bloody finger nails to protect what they have.

The parity line of thinking is another reason to think that there will be no injection of interest from other manufacturers and when and if Holden reduce or remove their interest all of a sudden it will be back to a semi professional series if it survives. Less greed and self interest and more understanding of why the decline is happening would go a long way to finding an answer to a problem that was obvious from the very beginning and the reason that the series was originally started which was to create wealth for a few select people. Don't give me the line that it was to promote motor racing and make teams viable, that won't wash, the underlying reason was a wealth creation exercise.
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