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Old 3 Mar 2018, 23:42 (Ref:3805596)   #31
mayhem
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mayhem should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridmayhem should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Originally Posted by Umai Naa View Post
If you were a manufacturer keen on entering the series, who would you offer a contract to?
Triple 8 or Penske. No one else. Dane has more say in the category than most and can make things happen. Penske have massive resources back in the US.
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Old 3 Mar 2018, 23:45 (Ref:3805597)   #32
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I've never heard of this, all the text books etc refer to the COG. Where can I read about COM being the term which must be used for vehicle dynamics?
in any mechanical engineering classroom, dating back at least 28 years, textboosk etc, where you're discussing applied mechanics.

Ask yourself this: is the issue how the car is affected by gravity, or how it applies its mass around an axis of rotation (in this case, ostensibly the suspension's roll centres).
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Old 3 Mar 2018, 23:56 (Ref:3805598)   #33
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Ospi should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridOspi should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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in any mechanical engineering classroom, dating back at least 28 years, textboosk etc, where you're discussing applied mechanics.

Ask yourself this: is the issue how the car is affected by gravity, or how it applies its mass around an axis of rotation (in this case, ostensibly the suspension's roll centres).
Yes I understand, moreso just intrigued that the major vehicle dynamics texts refer to it as COG instead (for example Milliken), I assume due to in this case the values being interchangeable although the terminology may be incorrectly used.
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Old 4 Mar 2018, 00:05 (Ref:3805599)   #34
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Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Scotty Mac on pole today..

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Old 4 Mar 2018, 00:10 (Ref:3805601)   #35
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Ospi should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridOspi should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I'm surprised all the teams are up in arms about Michael Caruso with his weight advantage and all! /s
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Old 4 Mar 2018, 00:12 (Ref:3805603)   #36
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I'm surprised all the teams are up in arms about Michael Caruso with his weight advantage and all! /s
that'll be today's parity soapbox... I note Skaife and Crompton are currently busily downplaying the idea that there's a manufacturer parity imbalance...
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Old 4 Mar 2018, 00:18 (Ref:3805604)   #37
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Yes I understand, moreso just intrigued that the major vehicle dynamics texts refer to it as COG instead (for example Milliken), I assume due to in this case the values being interchangeable although the terminology may be incorrectly used.
In effect, the terms wouldn't be interchangeable, due to the differing axes of application between pure gravity, and actual forces of acceleration due to movement of the mass moment of inertia)...

...biggest problem is usually that somebody looking to sound impressive (like a commentator) doesnt think that the more correct terms don't sound technical enough and so they use whatever they like, and the rest of the plebs figure that "it's on tv/facebook therefore it must be true". (we used to joke that "turbulation" sounded far more impressive than mere "turbulence" when discussing fluid dynamics, to the point we wore the lecturer down after 1 & 1/2 semesters, and he accidentally used our pet word. He gave us the rounds of the table for that)
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Old 4 Mar 2018, 00:57 (Ref:3805606)   #38
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Old 4 Mar 2018, 01:03 (Ref:3805608)   #39
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Scotty Mac on pole today..

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Which Red Bull is Scotty in?
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Old 4 Mar 2018, 01:08 (Ref:3805610)   #40
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I'm surprised all the teams are up in arms about Michael Caruso with his weight advantage and all! /s
There is already a mandatory 103 kg combined weight for the driver and seat , as there also is a mandatory 200kg weight for the engine (both engine COG and specified engine ballast location).

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4.2.2 The minimum Driver mass is 103.5kg which will include the following:
4.2.2.1 Driver’s weight with his complete apparel recorded by the S&TD at the Driver’s
first Event for the Season; and
4.2.2.2 the seat, seat brackets and all mounting bolts, nuts, washers and spacers; and
4.2.2.3 any additional ballast, which will be considered Driver ballast; and
4.2.2.4 The leg brace and all mounting bolts, nuts, washers and spacers.
4.2.3 Driver ballast must be carried in an area bounded by the following dimensions:
4.2.3.1 X=575mm, X=1985mm and Y=42mm, Y=683mm;
4.2.3.2 Regardless of the above dimensions all ballast must be within the cockpit and
no modifications to the Chassis are permitted other than to secure the ballast.
Quote:
C8.7 Engine Weight
8.7.1 The total minimum engine weight is 200 kg dry.
8.7.1.1 The centre of gravity (CoG) of any engine must be no lower than Z= 117mm and
no further rearward than X= -300mm (with the 0,0 being the intersection of the
crankshaft centre line and the rear face of the engine block).
8.7.1.2 Ballast to comply with the minimum weight and/or centre of gravity regulations
must be affixed to the engine unless specifically authorised in writing by the
S&TD.
8.7.1.3 All engine ballast affixed in accordance with Rule C8.7.1.2 must only be affixed
to the Chassis in a position authorised by the S&TD
https://d3spxwpngnho1k.cloudfront.ne...ved-200218.pdf

It's an oddity there is no mandatory weight, mandatory centre of gravity/mass (and therefore mandatory ballast location) for the bodywork!? Huge oversight IMO.

The rules address this effectively for the engine and driver respectively, and the same rules should be in place for the bodywork.

That would leave the spaceframe tube work of the COTF which is already the same in weight and COG for everybody. Plus the transaxle which is the same in weight and COG for everybody, and the uprights and brakes which are already the same minimum weight for everybody.

Finally the free area for development would be left over: the position of oil coolers, oil tanks, exhausts and other miscellaneous components where teams can have as much fun saving weight and optimising the COG as they like (as long as they as they avoid the prescribed banned exotic materials!) --- with nobody to be disadvantaged just because they have a different base car homologation.

Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 4 Mar 2018 at 01:15.
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Old 4 Mar 2018, 01:11 (Ref:3805611)   #41
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Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Was provisional but couldn't come up with the lap in the shoot out.

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Old 4 Mar 2018, 01:13 (Ref:3805613)   #42
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Ospi should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridOspi should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks View Post
There is already a mandatory 103 kg combined weight for the driver and seat, as there also is for the engine (both engine weight and specified engine ballast location).




https://d3spxwpngnho1k.cloudfront.ne...ved-200218.pdf

It's an oddity there is no mandatory weight or mandatory ballast location for the bodywork!? Huge oversight IMO.
Yes just read that, though I guess they can still ballast the driver on the floor which still gives a lighter driver a slight advantage.

Teams usually put the remainder of the ballast after the engine is at its limit under where the icebox is to even it up with the drivers weight.
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Old 4 Mar 2018, 01:14 (Ref:3805614)   #43
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Old 4 Mar 2018, 01:18 (Ref:3805616)   #44
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Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
There is a lot of context to this which the other teams don't care to consider

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Old 4 Mar 2018, 01:25 (Ref:3805618)   #45
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There is a lot of context to this which the other teams don't care to consider
Of course, but it is utterly crucial that Falcon and Altima runners are not disadvantaged and do not need to incur unnecessary rehomologation costs.

Given the low perceived sponsor value of Supercars they are all racing on shoestring budgets, and need to extract maximum value out of the iconic Falcon and Altima bodyworks.
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