How to fix F1?

[Aysedasi]

Personally, I'd say that it does. It is 'natural' for cars to race in wet conditions - always has been. Mother nature intervenes from time to time and provided the conditions aren't monsoon-like, there is an expectation that racing will take place. Artificially creating those conditions sounds very different to me in that there is control being exercised over them and the decision to race. I suppose if all teams signed up to a contractual agreement to race in whatever conditions are presented/dictated to them, natural or otherwise, maybe that would cover it, but is there ever any chance of that happening....... No. And would I want to see that? No.

[Armco Bender]

Thats the end of F1 then,it's far too dangerous for humans to participate in these days of Health & Safety gone mad.

[Aysedasi]

Yep. Have you seen the new H&S compliant race suits for next season yet?

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Armco Bender

Thats the end of F1 then,it's far too dangerous for humans to participate in these days of Health & Safety gone mad.

Not all; there is a world of difference between the track becoming wet by virtue of the natural elements of the weather, and a contrived situation where the circuit is soaked by artificial means.

Lest people forget, the Bianci family are still pursuing legal action because of the actions taken by the Race Director that they believe was the primary cause in the unfortunate death of Jules - which I personally believe is doomed to fail because it was evident that Jules was not driving in a manner that accorded to a) the conditions and more importantly, b) his knowledge that another car had already gone off heavily at that exact spot (he had already observed the scene on the previous lap, or he should have done so) and the fact that his telemetry showed that he didn't slow anywhere near enough when double yellows were being waved.

However, it doesn't take much of a stretch of the imagination to believe that if that accident had occurred as a result of the track being wet because the Race Director had had the sprinklers turned on, that the legal argument might well be won by a suing plaintiff.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Not all; there is a world of difference between the track becoming wet by virtue of the natural elements of the weather, and a contrived situation where the circuit is soaked by artificial means.

How exactly is there a world of difference? The complex corners in the track that make it difficult to navigate are contrived and are not natural. Parts of the sport are purposefully made to be difficult. The entire sport is artificial. If anything, natural weather may be MORE "unpredictable" in both timing and volume than a human created version. I think a more winnable argument would be... why do we race in the rain?

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Lest people forget, the Bianci family are still pursuing legal action because of the actions taken by the Race Director that they believe was the primary cause in the unfortunate death of Jules - which I personally believe is doomed to fail because it was evident that Jules was not driving in a manner that accorded to a) the conditions and more importantly, b) his knowledge that another car had already gone off heavily at that exact spot (he had already observed the scene on the previous lap, or he should have done so) and the fact that his telemetry showed that he didn't slow anywhere near enough when double yellows were being waved.

IMHO totally irrelevant. While his accident happened in wet conditions, the entire thing could have happen in dry conditions, or in some other scenario (oil on track, etc.) Broadly speaking the Bianci situation is about alleged negligence, which just happened in a wet situation. Other examples (Senna) happened in the dry. It was not about the expected, potential or allowable level of risk that everyone signs up for.

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

However, it doesn't take much of a stretch of the imagination to believe that if that accident had occurred as a result of the track being wet because the Race Director had had the sprinklers turned on, that the legal argument might well be won by a suing plaintiff.

Again, IMHO it actually is a huge stretch.

The sport is inherently dangerous, but there are controls in place to mitigate risk (crash barriers to protect spectators, crash cells for the drivers, etc.). The sport has already deemed that racing on a wet track is OK. It makes provisions for it in both the rules and the equipment.

I would say that assuming the human created situation is no worse (quantity of water, advanced notice, etc.) than that of the natural event, that it would be hard to make a winnable legal case.

I don't advocate for artificial wet tracks, but do think it's silly to assume it would clearly result in significant legal risk. With that being said... At least here in the US, you can sue anyone for just about any reason.

Richard

[S griffin]

I think the problem in the past is we've had cars stacked up behind the safety car when they are on wets, then as soon as the SC comes in, they're immediately in for inters! Used to drive me mad

[Anyopenroad]

So that’s three excellent races in a row.

Remind me again what we’re trying to fix?

[Greem]

A bloke in the pub told me that he thinks F1 isn't what it used to be, so that's what we're trying to fix.

He also mentioned that he knows where Lord Lucan went, so his opinion is completely valid.

[Akrapovic]

How to fix F1?

Hockenheim grade tarmac.

[Anyopenroad]

To make a less flippant observation, perhaps the ‘problem’ is some of the tracks. Maybe the answer starts with ‘don’t race at Paul Ricard’.

[Taxi645]

Originally Posted by Anyopenroad

To make a less flippant observation, perhaps the ‘problem’ is some of the tracks. Maybe the answer starts with ‘don’t race at Paul Ricard’.

I reckon Paul Ricard would already be a lot better for F1 (racing at least) if the chicane was much closer to the start or the end of the mistral straight (I would prefer a corner corner combination closer to the start. That way you get much more high speed action into Signes.

That said, the direct surroundings off the track would still not be ideal.



P.S. I vote for a Sottish Grand Prix...

[GT6]

more races like that

[Casper]

I've got an idea. Sprinklers all around the circuit so the whole thing is wet and the teams get told 30 minutes before the race start whether it will be a wet race or not. During the race the water added could be varied to change the grip and if they all come in to change tyres then put it back to what it was before the tyre changes and they can do it all again. The main advantage of doing this would be the pit teams would running around like headless chickens, chaos would ensue and everyone would get P'd off. If it is a dry race we would see things as they are.

[Skam85]

Amazing to think that the last three races which have been so good are all on traditional old school circuits..

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Skam85

Amazing to think that the last three races which have been so good are all on traditional old school circuits..

I wonder if that is a significant differentiator? Is it the layouts or the crowds that spur the drivers on to better results? Combination no doubt.

Either way, its very fortunate that such fun races happened in front of large live audiences. The fans deserve that.

[S griffin]

I think we need cars with more power than grip if Hockenheim is anything to go by

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I think we need cars with more power than grip if Hockenheim is anything to go by

A fairly succinct summary of what needs to be done.

Although i would prefer they found a better way to achieve this then pray for rain (or artificially wet the track which i of course dont mind) and/or continue to make marginal tires.

Although i do think it is fair to say that Austria and GB benefitted from the harder compound allotments.

[Alfaholic]

Originally Posted by Skam85

Amazing to think that the last three races which have been so good are all on parts of traditional old school circuits..

(My addition in bold)

Don't forget that the "traditional" circuit makes up very little of the current circuit in all three cases - the Red Bull Ring is only about 1/2 of the original Österreichring, Hockenheim is the same having lost the blast out into the forest & back while Silverstone has been re-modelled many times over the years.

[S griffin]

True point there, although Silverstone has managed to retain a similar character throughout.

[Greem]

Originally Posted by S griffin

True point there, although Silverstone has managed to retain a similar character throughout.

Spot on. Every one of Silverstone's layouts has been wide, fast, flat, windy and cold!

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Skam85

Amazing to think that the last three races which have been so good are all on traditional old school circuits..

I'm confused. I thought that we hated Hockenheim because it isn't as good as the old school high speed blast that Tilke ruined. Isn't the Red Bull ring was a pale imitation of the old school Österreichring that Tilke ruined. Silverstone was ruined in 2010 for MotoGP.

Originally Posted by Alfaholic

(My addition in bold)

Don't forget that the "traditional" circuit makes up very little of the current circuit in all three cases - the Red Bull Ring is only about 1/2 of the original Österreichring, Hockenheim is the same having lost the blast out into the forest & back while Silverstone has been re-modelled many times over the years.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I think we need cars with more power than grip if Hockenheim is anything to go by

...and run-offs that actually punish driver errors.

[Adam43]

Hear hear. And doubly so when it is a Mercedes.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Greem

Spot on. Every one of Silverstone's layouts has been wide, fast, flat, windy and cold!

They missed a trick with Silverstone. They could have run two different layouts, alternating each year. A bit like Brands and Silverstone.

2003-9 Layout:


2010 Layout:


Current Layout:


The big difference between 2010 and now, is the location of the pits.

[Adam43]

I like that. Change each year. Variety. Give the teams more to do with set-up.