V8 Supercar Racing in WA doomed?? (merged x1)

[Sandgroper]

As per the WA newspaper today, the rounds of the V8 supercars will cease after the 2009 due to the State Govt not agreeing to supply the money and shut down the city to hold a street race event.

Oh well now to decide on which events to fly out to view interstate.

(WA the boring state)
(weve lost every sporting event to our Eastern States counterparts)

[Nivola]

As a Western Australian Im glad that this will not happern.

Time to build a new proper race circuit in WA.

Hmmmmm Government did something smart for once. A miracle!

[deeks6]

Short-sighted, inconsiderate, dopey beaurocratic @rseholes ... do these fools see what Clipsal did for Adelaide????????

And WA has more money than any other state!

Vote them OUT.

[NewsStalker]

Here we go again - this seems to be a regular 3-4 year cycle of TC Vs WA - when will Cochrane learn that WA is simply not going to give in to his whims and demands?

deeks6 - Yes everyone saw what Clipsal did for Adelaide - it ensured nothing got spent on their only permanent race track in the state. And obviously this is going to open up the whole perm Vs street circuit argument again - but personally - the sooner street circuits are banished the better motor sport in this country will be. They cater for the elite categories only, suck prospective sponsorship dollars away from the venues required to build the drivers the sport will need in 10-20 years time.

But I guess having Mr Magoo style glasses is a convenient ailment?

[cavvy]

Dont despair you Sandgropers ... there will be some commercial realities coming the other way to VESA courtesy of the sponsors of the teams.

Start with Ford & Holden - the WA guys will be looking to move their share of the V8SC budget elsewhere - why would WA advertising/promo money go to an East Coast series?
Cat: WA is a huge market.
Jim Beam, Jack Daniels - will they see V8SC providing less for their dollar? Will they reduce the budgets of their team?
BP: the only refinery in WA is BP.

From my own experience I know it will happen. Cochrane has lost each time he has tried for a subsidy from WA.

[Sandgroper]

Originally Posted by Nivola

As a Western Australian Im glad that this will not happern.

Time to build a new proper race circuit in WA.

Hmmmmm Government did something smart for once. A miracle!

Yes the much await Bunbury circuit, but i think WA is doomed.
Start booking your ticket for Eastern States.

[Nivola]

I would rather go to Sepang and watch some real racing (Supergt) then the east coast to watch follow the leader racing.

You spend same amount of money and it is better holiday then going east!

[JustASupporter]

Problem is that V8SC is the only motorsport that actually will make a track money. Why anyone, who wasn't a motorsport nut, would want to allocate money to build a racing facility to cater for exposure 1 weekend a year is beyond me. What Townsville is doing helps attract government money so a big tick for innovation but they are doing so much more then a single visioned "race track". Why would the governments be bothered giving money to a cash cow when there are hospitals, roads, elderly, etc that need money more urgently?

[PVDA]

Originally Posted by userisbott

Problem is that V8SC is the only motorsport that actually will make a track money.

I hate to say it but you are wrong there userisbott.

Car Race Tracks are not just used on the occasional weekend for car race events.

To use Winton as an example, they have the V8's as well as countless smaller events for car & motorcycles run not only by the Benalla Auto Club (the track owner) but by other groups. Then there's Private Practice days (most Fridays), Testing track hires for race teams, Manufacturers like hire the track, Tyre manufacturers hire the complex, Drifting events, Corporate and Public ride Days. There are not a lot of days that Winton has available to allow them to cut the grass without getting in someone's way who is using the track.

Calder Park is actually holding a Crusty Demon Night of World Records which is expecting a crowd of over 40,000 with 20,000 tickets already sold in less than 3 weeks on the 29th of March next year.

If marketted properly a race track isn't just a race track unlike the once a year Clipsal 500, Albert Park F1 or Proposed WA street courses.......

[MCWB]

Originally Posted by userisbott

Problem is that V8SC is the only motorsport that actually will make a track money.

Sorry, but nothing could be further from the truth!

[Denosaur]

Originally Posted by userisbott

Problem is that V8SC is the only motorsport that actually will make a track money.

Actually loose money for the circuit. Phillip Island was loosing money when they promoted the race. Now they make more money out of hiring it to V8SC. They don't have to pay the sanctioning fee to them, but the down side is that V8SC then ups the advertising fee's for trackside sponsorship, ticket prices and the real 'money cow' as I've herd in some parts is the corporate areas.

As PVDA has said, you don't need them if you can generate income from other sources.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by userisbott

Problem is that V8SC is the only motorsport that actually will make a track money. Why anyone, who wasn't a motorsport nut, would want to allocate money to build a racing facility to cater for exposure 1 weekend a year is beyond me. What Townsville is doing helps attract government money so a big tick for innovation but they are doing so much more then a single visioned "race track". Why would the governments be bothered giving money to a cash cow when there are hospitals, roads, elderly, etc that need money more urgently?

The eastern creek round lost money and I believe it was the only money losing venture the ARDC had in the last year. Eastern Creek is booked everyday with something.

[NewsStalker]

Originally Posted by userisbott

Problem is that V8SC is the only motorsport that actually will make a track money.

Others have answered this - but you need to ask yourself (besides weather you feel lucky, punk! ) this:

If the circuits ONLY make money on V8 rounds, why didn't Winton, Sandown, Eastern Creek, Mallala and Queensland Raceway all fold and close down when they missed out on V8 rounds?

[Average Punter]

So TC threatens to take his bat and ball and go home.

The WA Government stands firm and tells TC says "go to blazes..."

Holden and Ford and a myriad other major sponsors lean on TC and say you "must have a round in WA..."

At the last minute TC caves in and says thanks to sponsorship from (insert company name here) the Barbagallo round has been saved.


Ho hum. We've heard it all before

[JustASupporter]

"Problem is that V8SC is the only motorsport that actually will make a track money."
My statement (that contains "will" not "does" so come on fellas read properly ) comes from the potential money raised via tv and attendence through sponsorship. If the tracks can't get their butts into gear for their once in a year exposure to television, then that's their problem and yes they will lose $$ with the event.

But since there are comments saying the tracks seem to do so well without the V8SC, then why do they need govt money to make major improvements?

Why can't the QLD raceway fix the bumps at the end of the straight? Because they don't have the money, so all the other events that it hosts aren't allowing them to make a profit but simply covering costs.

[racer69]

VESA/AVESCO has threatened to leave WA twice already haven't they if a street race wasn't forthcoming, and they came back both times.

What makes us think this decision about the street race is necessarily it for Wanneroo??

[mjt57]

So, what's wrong with Wannaroo, anyway? Or is Cochrane looking to line VESA's pockets with greater margins that a taxpayer funded street circuit may provide?

Whatever, I agree. Taxpayers shouldn't really have to fund such events, particularly when there is a perfectly good permanent facility that can hold the event.

And in any case, street circuits are generally boring, with bugger all room for passing or any real sort of racing. That abomination around Surfers is testament. One false move and your car's stuffed. Just like Monaco, I s'pose. It's probably more about getting the general unwashed masses up there, partying and boozing and, oh, that's right, there's some race on tomorrow, isn't there?

I'd go once, just to experience the place, not for the racing. For that you go to Bathurst. At least there you get racing AND partying...

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by mjt57

So, what's wrong with Wannaroo, anyway? Or is Cochrane looking to line VESA's pockets with greater margins that a taxpayer funded street circuit may provide?

Thats the one.

Congratulations to the WA government for again standing up to the ogor and standing firm in regards to no street race.

[NewsStalker]

Originally Posted by userisbott

"Problem is that V8SC is the only motorsport that actually will make a track money."
My statement (that contains "will" not "does" so come on fellas read properly ) comes from the potential money raised via tv and attendence through sponsorship. If the tracks can't get their butts into gear for their once in a year exposure to television, then that's their problem and yes they will lose $$ with the event.

But since there are comments saying the tracks seem to do so well without the V8SC, then why do they need govt money to make major improvements?

Why can't the QLD raceway fix the bumps at the end of the straight? Because they don't have the money, so all the other events that it hosts aren't allowing them to make a profit but simply covering costs.

Wether it says 'will' or 'does', doesn't matter - no matter how you want to try and spin it, the V8's do NOT make money for any of the tracks they run on. Matthew Ronke may be able to give you a breakdown of how the V8's structure their 'fees' and 'royalties'.

But regardless, the simple fact is that the tracks ARE able to hire out their venues virtually 365 days a year - as I said before - if they couldn't do this they would have closed up long ago.

QR have stated a number of times that they are quite happy and earning enough from non-CAMS events at the track to not even require a CAMS track licence.

Even blind Freddie can read between the lines on this.

[alfacors]

And the much maligned Eastern Creek operates at over 90% occupancy for year after year - and that includes the skidpan and now with Subaru basing their National Driver Training Centre at the skid circuit.

[dsg]

Originally Posted by mjt57

So, what's wrong with Wannaroo, anyway?

Nothing apart from the pits.

[deeks6]

Originally Posted by NewsStalker

Here we go again - this seems to be a regular 3-4 year cycle of TC Vs WA - when will Cochrane learn that WA is simply not going to give in to his whims and demands?

deeks6 - Yes everyone saw what Clipsal did for Adelaide - it ensured nothing got spent on their only permanent race track in the state. And obviously this is going to open up the whole perm Vs street circuit argument again - but personally - the sooner street circuits are banished the better motor sport in this country will be. They cater for the elite categories only, suck prospective sponsorship dollars away from the venues required to build the drivers the sport will need in 10-20 years time.

But I guess having Mr Magoo style glasses is a convenient ailment?

Um, just a sec ...

On one hand, you're saying that a Street Race will suck $$ out of a permanent circuit, yet a few posts later you say that a permanent circuit can get by without a V8 round. Which is it ???

Or, on the other hand, maybe they can BOTH exist for the BETTERMENT of motor sport in WA. Let me explain -

If Wanneroo continues to hold a V8 round, the crowds will continue to dwindle because the racing is ordinary and so are the facilties (for any crowd over about 5000). Therefore the round will die a natural death and motorsport will have no publicity of any note in the state.

However, a Street race (and associated carnival) would attract mammoth crowds (by comparison) and a huge influx of money to WA. Motorsport would be the key event for the media for a period of time, attracting not only new fans but probably more sponsorship as well. Smart operators can piggy back off that for other racing (i.e. at Wanneroo). And please don't tell me that the money does not flow down - it does. There are feeder categories (and other televised events) that are doing very well because of this and would not flourish if the V8 brand was not strong. Club racing etc has never had any money apart from that supplied by competitors and that will not change.

Much as I dislike Mr Cochrane, he is on the money (excuse pun) with this - watch what it does for Townsville and NZ. All sports must compete against each other these days and the bigger the event, the more attractive it is for the sponsors to get involved with the brand.

Tell me, what major (or any) "events" does WA have now? Clipsal is a HUGE event - I've done the corporate and the "punter" style and both are brilliant. When I go, I stay for a week and spend money on accomodation, food, merchandise, grog and then I go to Barossa and load up the boot (plus a stop off at Coonawarra on the way back. If it was WA, I'd do the same thing (i.e Margaret River). Tourists are $$$

It's a pity that the forest is obscured by all those trees!

[JustASupporter]

Originally Posted by deeks6

Um, just a sec ...

On one hand, you're saying that a Street Race will suck $$ out of a permanent circuit, yet a few posts later you say that a permanent circuit can get by without a V8 round. Which is it ???

Or, on the other hand, maybe they can BOTH exist for the BETTERMENT of motor sport in WA. Let me explain -

If Wanneroo continues to hold a V8 round, the crowds will continue to dwindle because the racing is ordinary and so are the facilties (for any crowd over about 5000). Therefore the round will die a natural death and motorsport will have no publicity of any note in the state.

However, a Street race (and associated carnival) would attract mammoth crowds (by comparison) and a huge influx of money to WA. Motorsport would be the key event for the media for a period of time, attracting not only new fans but probably more sponsorship as well. Smart operators can piggy back off that for other racing (i.e. at Wanneroo). And please don't tell me that the money does not flow down - it does. There are feeder categories (and other televised events) that are doing very well because of this and would not flourish if the V8 brand was not strong. Club racing etc has never had any money apart from that supplied by competitors and that will not change.

Much as I dislike Mr Cochrane, he is on the money (excuse pun) with this - watch what it does for Townsville and NZ. All sports must compete against each other these days and the bigger the event, the more attractive it is for the sponsors to get involved with the brand.

Tell me, what major (or any) "events" does WA have now? Clipsal is a HUGE event - I've done the corporate and the "punter" style and both are brilliant. When I go, I stay for a week and spend money on accomodation, food, merchandise, grog and then I go to Barossa and load up the boot (plus a stop off at Coonawarra on the way back. If it was WA, I'd do the same thing (i.e Margaret River). Tourists are $$$

It's a pity that the forest is obscured by all those trees!

Well said.

When it's your big day and you market something right, you will make serious money. For a track it's the same, market the event and "other" things to do and get more people through the gate. Suddenly you have an audience for sponsors to pay for advertising, food and beverage stalls, parking etc the list goes on. This is how a track can also earn meaningful $$ from an event. It's just a shame that some people in the industry don't get it or don't know how to do it.

[NewsStalker]

Originally Posted by deeks6

Um, just a sec ...

On one hand, you're saying that a Street Race will suck $$ out of a permanent circuit, yet a few posts later you say that a permanent circuit can get by without a V8 round. Which is it ???

No - I said a perm circuit doesn't necessarily make MONEY out of a V8 round. But, either way, both statements can be true and aren't mutually exclusive.

A street race DOES suck money away from permanent tracks both from the point of income and also development.

[PVDA]

Originally Posted by userisbott

comes from the potential money raised via tv and attendence through sponsorship.

The TV money goes to VE$A and it's shareholders not the track hosting the event.
The promotor (track) has to pay an appearance fee to VE$A for the circus to show up (A).
The promotor has to set things up the way VE$A wants it which adds up to many many thousands of dollars (B).
The promotor has to get in extra services to cater for the larger crowd numbers (security, food, toilets and so on) (C).
But the promotor gets to keep the gate takings to help pay for it all (D).

So when you do the maths of D-A-B-C= >$0.00 you've done well.