That's it, Cart is finished

[Derek P]

With Andretti Green gone, Cart has lost 3 of it's biggest stars (why Dario why??), it won't be long before Target Ganassi announce that they've gone as well, and now Adrian Fernandez is threatening to quit Cart. It's been truly great while it lasted, the last 10 years of Cart have provided some great races, but I've now lost all hope that there will be a cart series worth having next year, if Chris Pook has anything up his sleeve NOW is the time to make it public. I wonder whether the IRL will ever race at Rockingham............

[Jay]

I hate to be rude, but please feck off with your Cart is dieing attitude. If it does die it will be because of people with your attitude.

We knew this was going to happen for a while now, and I'm sure Chris Pook knew for even longer. The good news, is that Cart will be around in 2003 and 2004 and 2005.... Next year there will be between 18 and 21 cars (those estimates were made with the realisation that Green and possibly Ganassi would take their money sacks and go driving in circles). Cart will have some of the closest racing of any open-wheel racing series (similar to Atlantics, but faster and much better than this year), with turbo-charged engines, slick tires and no traction control = tons of power sliding. What more would you want?

[Jordi]

Ditto, Jay.

[69Camaro]

Ditto, Jay and Jordi.
CART may be a totally different animal next year, but it WILL be here.
Stick around and watch. The fun's just beginning.

[Arneal]

The flight of CART's top teams and stars to the IRL is unfortunate and will breathe life into that comatose series, but I don't think it is the death of CART. As Jay indicated the on track action next year should be very good. Another factor is Pook's low budget approach should help the series survive with fewer big sponsers. That will help CART through its rebuilding years and hopefully soon things will be better than ever.

CART will be different the next few years, but I don't think it will be dead.

[pink69]

Do you know, I was coming on to post exactly the same topic. I hope Chris Pook is a miracle worker because CART needs one right now. CART are set to loose Ganassi, Team Green, Walker Racing and possibly Mo-Nunn. Thats 8 cars, plus some of its big name drivers like Franchitti, Kanaan, Dixon, Andretti. That leaves CART with 10 cars at the moment for next year, that could drop. I hope all these interested parties come in or CART doesn't stand a chance. What the series needs are4 new teams and a wealth of new, young talent to even stand a chance. A possibly its own personal showpiece.

[Jay]

I should point out that Derek Walker has confirmed one car for next year in Cart, and he is working on getting the sponsorship for a second car.

Mo Nunn is pretty much guaranteed to field at least one car, possibly 2 or even 3 depending on sponsorship.

There are very strong rumours that Red Bull will be moving to Cart shortly.

There's also a new rumour that Panther Racing may field a car in Cart..uncofirmed though.

And again, TEam St. George is almost good to go with 2 cars next year..

Then there are the rest...

Cart will be just fine thank you.

[Liz]

I agree with the above. If you came over here to gloat and flame, you have come to the wrong place. We are not going to play that game. Target says that no decision has been made yet regarding Ganassi, and Ganassi says the same. You are speculating. You should do that over in your own yard.

May I be the first to wish you goodbye? Don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya. And make sure it's closed tightly behind you.

Champ Cars will be just fine, thanks.

[WheelMan]

I've been to more than one CART forum in the last hour and all I read is a pack of whining ********.

If a race series was judged on the calibre of what was written about it on internet bulletin boards then yes, there would be grounds for thinking the worst.

CART was alive and thriving long before Dario and Tony came along and I'm sure it will continue to do so.

The glass is half full people not half empty.

This is not the end.
This is a new beginning.

Instead of bemoaning any loss how about a good healthy debate about who will now get an opportunity to get into CART.

I just don't get this frenzy over the Indy 500.
A once great race that is now more hype than substance.
If CART were to get buried by a series based around that one race in May then the future of open-wheeled racing in the US is done!

If you were to run in an oval only series then why not a successful and prosperous one like Nascar?

[Jay]

Good Points wheelman.

btw, I don't think Ganassi will be in Cart next year, so don't go moaning when that announcement comes. There will be a number of other good announcements about Cart shortly.

The series is changing in a big way, costs are being lowered, new teams and drivers are coming in, but the same great cars (likely closer racing next year) will still be running on the same great tracks.

[camcartfan]

Originally posted by Jay
I should point out that Derek Walker has confirmed one car for next year in Cart, and he is working on getting the sponsorship for a second car.

Mo Nunn is pretty much guaranteed to field at least one car, possibly 2 or even 3 depending on sponsorship.

There are very strong rumours that Red Bull will be moving to Cart shortly.

There's also a new rumour that Panther Racing may field a car in Cart..uncofirmed though.

And again, TEam St. George is almost good to go with 2 cars next year..

Then there are the rest...

Cart will be just fine thank you.

And don't forget Barry Green

[slicktoast]

Not so fast! With all the defectors from CART, where do you think all the current bottom to mid-pack irl teams are going to go? That's right! To CART! We'll have full grids next year because all those teams will realize they've been sold a bill of goods. And CART 2003 is just what they need but thought they were getting over at irl.

[Liz]

Things are looking up.

Let's face it: None of us liked Mikey anyway; Tony Kanaan was a backmarker; and Mr. Judd won't race too much longer before he'll be occupied full time dangling at his wife's apron strings at Hollywood parties.

One thing you can guarantee about racing: there are always more drivers where the last batch came from.

Life was good before they got here, and will be good when they are invisible.

[f1manoz]

I concur with everything said in this thread.

LONG LIVE CHAMPCAR RACING!!!!

[Flatspot]

OK, a couple of good racers defected today, but why is everybody freaking out? Everyone knew Andretti was going and I'm sorry but if you think he'd hire a couple of lame drivers you're just not thinking.

I hear people saying things like "I don't have anyone to cheer for", well, I intend to cheer for (in no particular order) daMatta, Tracy, Carpentier, Tagliani, Junqueira, Papis, Vasser, Servia etc. etc. Everybody is making it sound like all the talent has gone away. It's just not true. Now maybe guys like Gidley will be able to pick up the ride he's always deserved. Lest we forget there's tons of new talent out there too as Manning showed last weekend.

Mario, Mears, Emmo, Rahal, Al Sr. & Bobby, Rutherford, Sneva and so many more don't race Champ Cars anymore either and the series has survived both good times and bad, diverse and spec.

As everyone already knows CART has major rebuilding to do and with that will come major pains. You've got to expect that, it's the nature of the beast. I fully expect that some of the people on my "cheer list" will go to the IRL or other series before this is all through.

Get tough, quit whining, watch and enjoy!!! That's Racing!!!

[Barbarosa]

Well, it is nice to know that my faith in the belief "Anyone can be bought" has once again been proven true.

As for Pook, the man is really rather spooky. The man has more rabbits in his hat than anyone could think possible. So, while some high priced teams are taking the money and running, have some faith that he's going to pull this one out of the wringer. During the Brian Redman Vintage Race back in July, Barry Waddell (Skip Barber Pro Coach and sports car driver) said that Pook was working on getting ALMS to work with CART so that race weekends would be ALMS AND CART.

Also, Pook understands what has made NASCAR big in the last decade. It's not a race, but an event. That means making the race into a centerpiece for a weekend again. People go to the race, the get to go to the concert afterwards for free. That's how he turned Long Beach into the huge event that it is. So much so that the race itself has helped revitalize Long Beach.

So, don't be so quick to write CART's Obiturary. Tony George has been since the day he took his ball and went home to Indy. If I know Pook, there will be at least 18-20 cars next year, and 20-26 the following. The man thinks about the entire war, not just a battle here or there. And until CART goes down, and all those North American Road Tracks are up for grabs, Tony George really doesn't have all that many road tracks he can expand into. Which means, he's stuck on Ovals. He can't really go to Europe to race on Road Courses, since Bernie Ecclestone's about as likely to let TG compete with him as CART. And having an IRL race on the F1 track at Indy is just going to highlight how inferior IRL cars are to Champ Cars and F1's.

And then there are all those small teams that he's going to drive out of IRL because they can't afford to play catch up with Penske, Andretti, and Ganassi. They gotta go somewhere. TG might have just cut off his nose to spite his face on this one. That Toyota/Honda Feud is just going to make it too expensive for all those teams in IRL to race there. And then, he's got only Penske, Ganassi, and Andretti. Sounds like a real fun season when that happens.

Barbarosa

[macdaddy]

Fernandez, Herdez(2), N/Haas(2), TeamMario, Forsythe(3), St.George(2), BarryGreen(2), Rahal(2), Patrick(2), Walker(2), Morello, Stefan Johansson and Frank Arciero. Perhaps RedBull and Panther. What of Lynx and Dorricott?

Nothing wrong with that car count. And that's not counting Ganassi, Andretti, Nunn, or the second Fernandez car. In fact, I'd be surprised if Forsythe doesn't field four cars!

Next year's gonna be just fine. Maybe even better than this year. There should be more ontrack excitement. And for every talent lost, there will be a new talent gained. There's alot of it out there.

[f1manoz]

There will be at least 20 cars on the grid next year, and with the abolishment of TC and the standard formula of Lola/Ford, we should see some of the best racing around.

Never fear ChampCar lovers, CART is here to say. The war has just begun!

[Liz]

I have a friend in his 80s who laughs every time someone says "It's the end of the world as we know it." And he says "The end of the world as I knew it has come more than a dozen times in my lifetime!" I saw the Berlin Wall go up, and I saw it come down; I saw Apollo 11 land on the moon and have seen space flight become so routine that nobody even knows what's up and what's down. In F1 i saw the turbos come and the turbos go, every kind of tires used and discarded, drivers rise and fall and get killed and said "Nobody can ever replace him!" and in most cases somebody did.

Whatever form Champ Cars takes in the future, it will still be more fun to watch than either those people driving in circles in Kansas City, or whatever's going on in F1 until the German guy retires. I for one am looking forward to attending the races and welcome everybody to write about their ideas on how things will develop, for the newsletter. Lets keep the word spreading, and lets start with some positive topics in here! "The stands are empty" and "Cart is finished" do not give the right impression. Think positive, post positive!

[Derek P]

I seem to have upset some people with my post. I am a huge CART fan and have been ever since it first appeared on satellite TV over here in europe, I just believe that losing 3 star drivers in one go is going to be hard to recover from, yes we all knew that Mikey was going but who expected Dario or Tony to follow??? Anyway I don't want CART to die, I've been to 3 Cart races over the years and thought they were all brilliant (Surfers in 95 and both Rockingham races), and I'd like to go to some more. I really hope I'm proved wrong and the series emerges from all this with a good strong field.

[Ben 93 325is]

So Liz, I see what you are saying...but does it make it better to live in denial and pretend that CART has no problems at all right now? According to you we should never discuss it and only talk about the positive in CART. That may make everyone feel happy inside, but it isn't reality. If a CART fan wants to intelligently discuss one of the many problems facing CART today, why should he be stopped from doing so? Your answer is "post on the IRL board". What kind of CART discussion is someone going to get over there? Neither of the threads you mentioned were "anti-CART". I suggest you stop trying to censor people, and let them discuss what they want.

[Ben 93 325is]

Originally posted by Ben 93 325is
So Liz, I see what you are saying...but does it make it better to live in denial and pretend that CART has no problems at all right now? According to you we should never discuss it and only talk about the positive in CART. That may make everyone feel happy inside, but it isn't reality...nor is it going to help that person do what he can to help the series. If a CART fan wants to intelligently discuss one of the many problems facing CART today, why should he be stopped from doing so? Your answer is "post on the IRL board". What kind of CART discussion is someone going to get over there? Neither of the threads you mentioned were "anti-CART". I suggest you stop trying to censor people, and let them discuss what they want.

[Liz]

I'm not trying to censor anybody. What I'm trying to do is stop people from coming over here saying "CART is dead, CART is finished, Tony George has Won." That is not true and it is not helpful, and the place for that kind of stuff is the IRL forum.

If you really want to help the series, how about "What can we do to improve CART?" as a topic instead of "That's It, Cart is Dead"? Do you go to a convalescent home and sit down beside your friend who has been very ill and announce, "That's it, your life is over" if your real purpose is to encourage him and confer about what ways you can help him?

As far as "doing what you can to help the series", telling everyone who signs in here and sees the topic list that "CART is dead" seems to be a funny way to "help".

Can you see my point?

[Ben 93 325is]

Yes, I can see your point. If you don't want to "censor anybody", then I suggest you don't post on a thread asking a moderator to remove it from the board. You stated that we shouldn't post threads like "the stands are empty." Did you read that thread or just the title? The entire thread is posted from well informed, caring CART fans that are discussing in their own informed opinions, what they think CART should do in the future. Topics like increased marketing, lower ticket prices, road course wings on short ovals etc. I do see the point you are trying to make. You're concerned about someone new to the sport seeing negative posts about the future of CART, and giving up on it before they give it a chance. But I think telling someone they should "Go post on the IRL board", is only accomplishing one thing...turning a potential CART fan into an IRL fan. We don't know if the person posting here is a die-hard fan, or a newcomer that could become a fan of either series. Driving people away isn't the way to go in my opinion! The thread you are referring to, about CART being dead, was obviously written by a CART fan who is upset at the notion and is down about it. It clearly wasn't a IRL fan trying to start trouble. If you read all the responses, people all pointed out the positive aspects of CART, and how bright the long future does in fact look! I'm willing to bet that after reading the responses, Derek P probably has a different outlook. But, if he just "went away" like some of the people wanted him to...he truely would have given up on the series.

[Quadrifoglio]

I was at Rockingham in 2001, fantastic race.
i was there last week, speeds great, drivers pretty good, spectacle fantastic. racing 1 out of 10. anyone see a pass outside the pitlane cos i didnt. Switched on my TV for the Texas IRL race, WOW. close action all the way, like Nascar with open wheels, fantastic.
CART should go Road and street racing only now and leave the Ovals to the IRL. Surely it can prosper as a viable US based alternative to F1 and continue to entertain. Please , please get the IRL to Rockingham next year and leave the boring Turbo cars to the street circuits.