[Official] Portuguese Grand Prix 2020: Grand Prix Weekend Thread - Round 12 of 17

[bjohnsonsmith]

I remember Grosjean having a scary moment with a drain cover at Malaysia, in 2017 and Russell having a similar incident at Baku last year. Monaco 2016 as well, when Button's McLaren was very badly damaged.

[crmalcolm]

While we are discussing the application of track limits, interesting observations from a couple of touring car drivers:

https://twitter.com/ASuttonRacing/st...389947397?s=19

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

While we are discussing the application of track limits, interesting observations from a couple of touring car drivers:

https://twitter.com/ASuttonRacing/st...389947397?s=19

That video was quite sad.

Richard

[Akrapovic]

Spa didn't have enough officials on site to police it properly or safely earlier in the week. They chose to enforce it in corners where it could be dangerous (Eau Rouge)

[bjohnsonsmith]

A bit of a thriller right at the end, as Hamilton takes pole away from Bottas. Verstappen is third, just 2/10ths of a second behind Hamilton.

[Knowlesy]

Poor Valtteri.

Strange he didn't go for option of the second flyer but I guess he was very confident, looked great all weekend.

Leclerc again, wow.

[chillibowl]

Yeah Leclerc was great. Really fun quali session.

Grid looks poised for maximum excitement at the start. Might even get some interesting weather.

[GT6]

Grid looks like almost every other grid this season, how is that exciting?

[chillibowl]

Leclerc vs Verstappen, Perez behind and Bottas and Ham ahead.

That makes it interesting to me. To each their own of course.

[P38 in workshop]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Why not reduce the size of the run offs and make them a bit more threatening?

Isn't that the essence of my earlier post?Make any deviation from the tarmac an expensive excursion in one way or another and they won't want to go exploring.

[Akrapovic]

Or, lets stop messing with tracks just because F1 drivers can't behave themselves. That's half the reason for the amount of tarmac run off in the first place.

Other series need to use these circuits too. Stop changing them for F1.

[Anyopenroad]

Originally Posted by P38 in workshop

Isn't that the essence of my earlier post?Make any deviation from the tarmac an expensive excursion in one way or another and they won't want to go exploring.

Just to re-iterate Akrapovic's point: because 99% of the racing that happens at Portimao isn't F1 and 99% of that isn't pro drivers. "Expensive excursion" has a different meaning when you're talking about amateur and semi-pro drivers in the likes of ELMS, Creventic and the various historic and local series that also run there.

[S griffin]

Valterri missed out big time by not going for a second run. Same second row as last time, Max and Charles and great to see Checo up there too

Great to see Russell get into Q2 and what’s more outqualify Vettel. Really hope George is on the grid next season

[Aysedasi]

I don't want to harp on the track limits thing, however watching part of that lap from Spa makes you realise that the white lines bordering the tracks these days are of no more than some vague historical interest. 'Look son, see those old white lines there, drivers used to have to drive the whole track between those. Crazy old times eh?'

[Greem]

Originally Posted by P38 in workshop

Isn't that the essence of my earlier post?Make any deviation from the tarmac an expensive excursion in one way or another and they won't want to go exploring.

And that was my point earlier, too. These circuits don't just hold F1 races, where the teams can (in theory) afford the expense of a big crash.

As you get down the stack, it's only fair to allow people a bit of wriggle room.

Also: bikers *really* don't like hitting walls, whether they're MotoGP, WSBK or local club riders.

Open your eyes. Circuits don't just host F1, they have to balance a load of different things.

[Greem]

Originally Posted by Anyopenroad

Just to re-iterate Akrapovic's point: because 99% of the racing that happens at Portimao isn't F1 and 99% of that isn't pro drivers. "Expensive excursion" has a different meaning when you're talking about amateur and semi-pro drivers in the likes of ELMS, Creventic and the various historic and local series that also run there.

That too.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Greem

And that was my point earlier, too. These circuits don't just hold F1 races, where the teams can (in theory) afford the expense of a big crash.

As you get down the stack, it's only fair to allow people a bit of wriggle room.

Also: bikers *really* don't like hitting walls, whether they're MotoGP, WSBK or local club riders.

Open your eyes. Circuits don't just host F1, they have to balance a load of different things.

Sand traps are a good alternative and can be prepared in any variation from gravel road to quick sand, can make everyone happy.

[seanyb505]

Quick sand would also eliminate the need for the snatch tractor. No marshalls needed on a hot track too. Seems this is the safest option.

[Anyopenroad]

Originally Posted by wnut

Sand traps are a good alternative and can be prepared in any variation from gravel road to quick sand, can make everyone happy.

Sand and gravel traps also catch out amateur drivers making small mistakes in much more primitive cars, leading to red flags and disruption (see: Brands Hatch) when a tarmac run-off allows them to carry on with no more than a scare and a lesson learned.

It's also well established that sand and gravel are more dangerous for faster cars than tarmac. Cars tend to either skip over the surface, barely slowing, or dig in and risk flipping. And even if they don't, do we really need every small mistake leading to red/FCY while a beached car is extracted?

I'm also in the small minority who thinks that Monaco sucks. Pretty and glamorous, sure, but tedious racing and too easily disrupted.

The answer to track limits in F1: start handing out penalties. Proper ones. One warning, the start adding time penalties and drive-throughs. Or, just leave it and let them get on with it. I'm fine with either.

[S griffin]

No thank you. We don’t need more penalties. We have enough as it is. If you have grass and gravel there they would respect the track more, simple

[Anyopenroad]

Originally Posted by S griffin

If you have grass and gravel there they would respect the track more, simple

No they wouldn't. There would just be more stoppages and yellows for small mistakes as drivers find the ragged edge of traction and skill. And all the other series who use the tracks the rest of the year would be screwed. And there would be more serious crashes and potentially drivers hurt.

Track limits in F1 is an F1 problem. The solution needs to be found within F1, not by making changes to tracks that host F1 once a year or less.

[S griffin]

So tell me why we don’t see a crash every 5 laps in Monaco? Exactly. Drivers will explore limits in practice, but will try to avoid mistakes during the race

[Anyopenroad]

Originally Posted by S griffin

So tell me why we don’t see a crash every 5 laps in Monaco? Exactly.

Hyperbole ("a crash every 5 laps") doesn't help make your point. Monaco is tedious processional "racing" punctuated by red-flagged sessions and long safety car periods. It only takes 1-2 crashes a session or in the race to ruin it.

Besides, what does Monaco have to do with a conversation about gravel traps? The point I and others are making here is that there is no need to butcher perfectly good tracks like Portimao just because F1 is unable to decide what to do about its own drivers pushing the limits. This isn't a problem for all the other series and drivers that go there, yet you are proposing changes which would affect them as well, even when F1 has decided to move on elsewhere.

[Greem]

Track limits is an endemic problem in all levels of four-wheeled motorsport, not just F1.

On days where I'm assigned as post chief in Motorsport UK sanctioned events, at corners which don't have track limits sensors/cameras, I can spend all day repeatedly calling in infringements. A while ago, before the pandemic, I did a meeting at Silverstone where I was the named judge of fact for track limits at Club (final corner for F1 fans); I called in over 180 infringements over the course of two days. At one corner. For one single international GT racing series.

Admittedly, the kerbing that's there now wasn't there then, but still.

Gravel/sand traps are all very well, but as others have said, they disrupt things. And they make bikers fall off, where tarmac can mean they stay upright and continue.

Trust me, there's no one easy answer to this problem apart from penalising people when they push the limits, and even that's not easy when the teams involved have image analysis kit and people that can prove a millimetre of tyre was actually on the line...

[chillibowl]

I must still be dreaming, but are people advocating that drivers should actually be pushing harder in practice then they do during the race???

For any allen iverson fans out there...you talking about practice and not the game?