Holden or Chrysler Valiant

[FastDB2s]

anybody out there now anything about Chrysler Valiant or Holden Hemi 6 at 215 cubic inches from the sixties or seventies, i know bore & stroke & valves sizes, what i need is valve angles (from the vertical, hopefully) stem dia's, if valves stepped across bore like a pinto. port shapes (diagram of head from side view), rod lengths, etc. etc. what sort of hp may be got if modded conventionally (i e larger valves, cams, webers etc)

[Teddington Ted]

Chris, what the hell are you building ? Mark

[FastDB2s]

Hi Mark,
YHM
Chris

[johnh875]

Make up your mind, which one? Holden & Chrysler Valiants are 2 very different things. There was a 215 Chrysler 6 on the drawing boards but it wasn't built (& would have been in the 70s). Here is a basic list of the Aussie 6cyl engines from the 60s:

Chrysler
225 slant six
245 Hemi (late 60s)
265 Hemi (1970?)

Holden
138 grey motor (up to 1963)
Red motor - 141, 161, 173, 179, 186, 202 (the latter in the 70s)

Ford
144, 170, 200, 221, 250ci

The Holdens definitely weren't Hemi heads, the old red motors have been described as having "mouse ear" ports, not to mention they were siamesed as well. All the motors you mention would have the valves in-line, not sure on angles etc.

The Hemis & Holdens are still very much around, the historic racing guys would be looking at 300hp or better from the 202 Torana GTR XU1's, while the 265 Hemi had 300hp back in the day (E49), not sure what they are getting now but LOTS is a safe answer. To get 215ci from a Holden six is beyond just boring the motor out too by the way, crank swaps have been done to increase the stroke to 235-240ci however.

Some more info would help!

[kramer]

I wonder if the designation of first Holden as the 48/215 isn't the confusion. The '215' refers to its displacement - 2.15 litres.

Kramer

[FastDB2s]

the motor in question is a Chrysler Hemi 6 cyl, not sure what year
Some more details
Bore: 3.52" 89.408mm
Stroke: 3.68" 93.472mm
Capacity: 215ci 3519cc
bigger versions of same motor
Bore: 3.76" 95.504mm
Stroke: same at 3.68" 93.472mm
Capacity: 245ci 4015cc
valve sizes for both: 1.84 inlet
1.5 ex
and
Bore: 3.91" 99.314mm
Stroke: same at 3.68" 93.472mm
Capacity: 265ci 4342cc
valve sizes for this: 1.96 inlet
1.6 exhaust
hope this helps
i've just worked it out that Holden are GM, sorry
Chris

[johnh875]

Ok, that makes sense. Sorry I didn't pick up on the Holden confusion, & oops I got the 215 not being produced bit wrong - they were only a base-model thing, if you didn't tick the option box (many would as the Valiant was a pretty big, heavy car). You don't tend to see them around too much nowadays.

This webpage (http://home.iprimus.com.au/lsd265/hemi_6.htm) has lots of good info such as rod length, valve stem dia. etc, also the following forums may be a source of info http://www.hemi6pack.com/forum/ & http://hemiperformance.com.au/forum/index.php?board=6.0.

The picture from the page above (Link) shows the longitudinal valve splay. There are also some photos of heads and combustion chambers that may be helpful.

I don't think many people would "hot up" the 215 engine, why would you start with a 60ci handicap? It would be like building a hot 850cc Mini when you could spend the same money on a 1275 and go a lot faster. Obviously it will be a bit harder for you to just go out and grab a 265 engine but it would be worth importing one (extra 100hp!). Over 400hp is possible from the 265 with triple Webers etc, so somewhere near 300 would be a good goal from the 215. In the Group Nc (up to 1972) touring car racing the Chargers with 265's only lose a little to the V8's with over a litre more capacity and ~600hp, and the car weights are pretty similar.

Are you working within a capacity limit at all? What sort of power do you get from Aston engines by comparison.

[275 GTB-4]

Contact the Tilleys in Sydney NSW (Tilley Automotive). They ran a very quick six cylinder, two-speed auto Valiant for many years.

[FastDB2s]

Thanks for that,
it not a hemi at all, just an oversized nissan 240z, pushrod operated.
Makes good hp though.
The best cast iron blocked Feltham (not DBR1 RB6 type engine, all alloy) to date, has given around 280 bhp from 2992cc with a single plug cast iron head, but that was with mapped ignition, external oil pumps, around 5 years ago (2/4 mk111)
The best DB3s to date (cast iron block, alloy twin plug head) gave around 278bhp, cost around 55k to build new, 3 or 4 years ago, no trick parts except modern cams, decent exhaust manifolds / system, 45 dco or dcoe
8 EMU DB2 that we built gives around 250 hp, cast iron single plug, 45 dcoe, modern cams, std pattern (rubbish) ex manifolds, 2922 cc
but a mk111 we built in late 2005 with std block, 2922 cc, forged pistons, steel rods etc, basically same bottom end as 8 EMU, but with new alloy single plug head (based on a 1952 factory alloy DB2 head) & twin 1.75" su's and fast road cams gave 227 bhp all these engines are dyno tested not on a rolling road so are actual hp
so the new alloy heads are the way to go.
Chris

[johnny yuma]

The most comparable Australian 6 would be the 179c.i. from the 1963 EH Holden at 2930 c.c. They were a worthy opponent to the 3.8 Jaguars despite the 3 speed gearbox and drum brakes because they only weighed 1100kg or 2350 lbs and produce 275bhp on 3x45 webers,modified 12 port head.

The combustion chambers are wedge shaped like their larger Chevrolet parent Six designed in USA in the fifties.The 179 motor ex factory weighed 400 lbs and had a steel crank and 7 main bearings.The 202 is a bored,stroked version as used in XU1 Torana.

[johnh875]

Had a magazine out looking up some info on the twin cam heads for old Holden grey motors, and it also had an article on the development of the Hemi motor. You're right it's not quite a true hemi, they described it as the top 30% of a sphere rather than half. They considered ohc, V6 layout etc but cost dictated ohv inline. Originally it was for use in the US as well, and also designed to be able to have a taller deck variant of about 300ci. Later on they were looking at 4 & 5cyl variants. There was one comment regarding the 215 version from the main engineer of the project, he said it was an afterthought and never worked as well as the bigger versions.