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Old 12 Jul 2017, 06:12 (Ref:3750621)   #51
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I note Christian Borener is adding his tuppence worth. Putting the boot into the BRDC in a manner tantamount to saying how dare the BRDC take away what is rightfully 'ours'
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Old 12 Jul 2017, 07:02 (Ref:3750628)   #52
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They needed to bail out to be able to renegotiate terms to a rediculous contract. It started at a reasonable rate (hosting fee to F1), but increases by 10% per year. I would say it was stupid for BRDA to sign it in the first place
5%.

BRDC actually have one of the biggest crowds in F1 and one of the lowest hosting fees, hence F1's long-term frustration with them.

They should either stop their unending moaning and quit F1 or lease the facility to someone who can turn a profit which for many would not be so hard.
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Old 12 Jul 2017, 08:30 (Ref:3750640)   #53
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Few seem to appreciate just how much the BRDC have invested in the circuit. Take a look at the place now compared to 10 or 20 years ago. Dozens of commercial properties have been built, an Apprenticeship College, Industrial Estates, Camp Sites and eventually a Hotel. There are various Driver Day Experiences taking place there virtually every day......and don't forget the dedicated Porsche facility either.

All of this has been done to secure a revenue stream which helps subsidize the GP.Christian Horner doesn't seem to realise, or care, that even though the GP sells out it still can't cover the exorbitant race fee.

The F1 Circus needs to understand that classic circuits like Silverstone, Monza,
Spa etc are huge brands themselves and bring massive value to the Sport. Why shouldn't the great race tracks be party to the Concorde agreement.......don't they deserve some financial recognition too?
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Old 12 Jul 2017, 08:42 (Ref:3750643)   #54
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5%.

BRDC actually have one of the biggest crowds in F1 and one of the lowest hosting fees, hence F1's long-term frustration with them.

They should either stop their unending moaning and quit F1 or lease the facility to someone who can turn a profit which for many would not be so hard.
This is far from reality. Silverstone is, from the spectators' point of view, one of the most expensive GPs during the season, it is always a complete sell out, and it has now reached it's safe maximum number of attendees.

So, there is no movement for financial improvement on that front.

As for the rest of the event, the BRDC are severely limited in what they can and cannot do by the FIA and FOM. They, the BRDC, have no control over what races are run in the F1 package, they have no financial interests in broadcasting and they have no control nor financial interest in any circuit surrounding advertising. And they receive no financial assistance from any government, either local or national.

And all that meant that last year they lost an estimated £4.5 million holding the race.
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Old 12 Jul 2017, 08:51 (Ref:3750644)   #55
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Don't think so. It was suggested pits needed refurbishing but the rest was a BRDC plan IIRC
No, BCE demanded a new pits complex along with luxury, swish media centres.

So, the BRDC borrowed the money and built the Wing. And yes, it was way over the top, but it at least kept Mr E quiet.

Then they sold a 999 year lease, I think it was, to all the Silverstone estate apart from the circuit itself, and it is now only the circuit that it controls.

A lot of the commerce that now takes place within the larger Silverstone complex has come about because of the developer that now owns the estate.
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Old 12 Jul 2017, 09:05 (Ref:3750646)   #56
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My first British Grand prix experience was in 1952 when the circuit was marked with oil drums and straw bales. The race winner Alberto Ascari had a post race wash and brush up at a cold water stand pipe in the corner of the Paddock.
The whole thing probably cost less than a 1000 quid and 100,000 spectators paid about five bob to get in. It was a nice sunny day too!.
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Old 12 Jul 2017, 09:24 (Ref:3750652)   #57
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As I cannot now add to my last posting, I should add that the reason that the BRDC sold off the estate was in order to pay of all their accumulated debts, including those incurred whilst making alterations to the circuit and building the Wing, etc.
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Old 12 Jul 2017, 09:35 (Ref:3750653)   #58
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My first British Grand prix experience was in 1952 when the circuit was marked with oil drums and straw bales. The race winner Alberto Ascari had a post race wash and brush up at a cold water stand pipe in the corner of the Paddock.
The whole thing probably cost less than a 1000 quid and 100,000 spectators paid about five bob to get in. It was a nice sunny day too!.
Blimey mate, you must be old.
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Old 12 Jul 2017, 10:02 (Ref:3750660)   #59
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Blimey mate, you must be old.
It sounded to me that you were probably standing next to each other at the event Baub...
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Old 12 Jul 2017, 11:32 (Ref:3750672)   #60
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I think it's a shame this had to happen, especially as they could have done a deal with the more persuasive Liberty Media that would have meant the great Silverstone would have been secure with a better deal

The London demo is a good idea and goes with Liberty's promotion ideas. Hope it is a success
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Old 12 Jul 2017, 11:52 (Ref:3750681)   #61
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The London demo is a good idea and goes with Liberty's promotion ideas. Hope it is a success
The EPG is showing Sky will be Live from 6pm till 9pm on the F1 channel.

It's also on formula1.com/live and also the formula1 channel on YouTube so should be available for all to see.
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Old 12 Jul 2017, 12:46 (Ref:3750693)   #62
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I've never understood why the "classic" circuits (Silverstone, Spa, Monza, Nurburgring) don't form an alliance of some sort.
Imagine the leverage they would have as a group?
If Liberty are to be believed, they wouldn't want them leaving en masse..
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Old 12 Jul 2017, 12:49 (Ref:3750695)   #63
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It sounded to me that you were probably standing next to each other at the event Baub...
Yes. He was under instructions from my mum to look after me!.
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Old 12 Jul 2017, 14:06 (Ref:3750708)   #64
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Yes. He was under instructions from my mum to look after me!.
And I did.
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Old 12 Jul 2017, 15:03 (Ref:3750716)   #65
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And all that meant that last year they lost an estimated £4.5 million holding the race.
surely there is a difference between running a loss for one event vs profits made over their fiscal year.

its a very common business practice for large venues to run a loss leader particularity one that allows them to subsidize capital improvements, develop new revenue streams, increase awareness/promotion etc....all of which Silverstone seems to be doing.

last year i had read an article talking about Silverstone's attempts to increase capacity for the GP and fortunately i was remembering correctly and even more fortunate to have re found the article easily.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/124219

all be it this is just for increasing general admission capacity which are lower cost tickets and has now probably already been maximized...but the article did mention that the venue did turn a profit (for the year ending sometime in 2016 i am assuming).

It is part of the latest set of initiatives of managing director Patrick Allen, who has turned around the fortunes of the circuit following regular annual losses, last year recording a profit for the first time in 10 years of £1.2million.

of course without seeing the detailed financials, its difficult to tell how they came to that number...for all i know they are robbing peter to pay paul (is that an offensive idiom).

anyways, long story short...over my years of watching F1, this venue has improved tremendously (with the exception of track layout of course but even then i like the new layout), people dont complain about the toilet situation any more, transportation to and from is better, visually it looks great (imo), the teams and media love it, and people still go in droves.

it has certainly maintained pace with the uber rich government funded tracks and outpaced Monza, Spa, Montreal in terms of ability to modernize (one of the reasons i think they can command such a high ticket price).

by all outward appearance, it looks to me like Silverstone has flourished during its tenure as an F1 host.
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Old 12 Jul 2017, 16:21 (Ref:3750736)   #66
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Yet despite all these modernisation improvements there is still no footbridge which links the outside section of the track to the new "Wing" area. If Oulton Park can afford one, why can't Silverstone?

I also dislike the amount of tarmac run off at most corners, they even have it at slow corners, where is the justification for that?! I can just about live with the argument that you need it at the end of a long straight in case of brake failure, however for the loop section where the apex speeds are something like 50 mph, why the need for tarmac all around? The same applies for the exit of Stowe which has now had its tarmac extended well past the exit kerb, again, I don't see the reasoning. For me it just creates another grey area when it comes to track limits, doesn't punish people when they make mistakes, and also I think blurs the lines with drivers who think its ok to push people onto it when battling wheel to wheel.
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Old 12 Jul 2017, 19:04 (Ref:3750769)   #67
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Don't think so. It was suggested pits needed refurbishing but the rest was a BRDC plan IIRC
According to this article in The Guardian: "Ecclestone was long a critic of the facilities, which were comprehensively upgraded in 2011 at the BRDC’s expense. "

Though not a newspaper I would necessarily associate with F1, this is how I understood the situation to be.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...-hosting-costs
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Old 12 Jul 2017, 19:08 (Ref:3750770)   #68
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I think it's a shame this had to happen, especially as they could have done a deal with the more persuasive Liberty Media that would have meant the great Silverstone would have been secure with a better deal

The London demo is a good idea and goes with Liberty's promotion ideas. Hope it is a success
Does this announcement preclude the BRDC from still doing a deal with Liberty?
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Old 12 Jul 2017, 19:23 (Ref:3750774)   #69
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Liberty have said that it won't make a difference, however they would have preferred that the BRDC had taken the offered extension to the deadline in order for this years event to happen without being overshadowed by the announcement.

I presume that the BRDC declined the extension, in order to make some sort of "political" capital by announcing just before the event.
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Old 12 Jul 2017, 19:40 (Ref:3750778)   #70
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I've never understood why the "classic" circuits (Silverstone, Spa, Monza, Nurburgring) don't form an alliance of some sort.
Imagine the leverage they would have as a group?
If Liberty are to be believed, they wouldn't want them leaving en masse..
Liberty Media insists traditional European races are key to its plans.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/l...future-881346/
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Old 12 Jul 2017, 19:55 (Ref:3750783)   #71
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i dont recall Liberty stating that they wouldnt renegotiate but clearly a war of words has begun between the two groups.

motorsports article has a Liberty quote suggesting that they offered to extended the termination clause date so that this wouldnt be an issue during the GP weekend which is reasonable imo.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f...clause-929434/

"We offered to extend the current deadlines in order to focus on everything that is great about Silverstone and Formula 1."

Here is just one of the quotes from Carey from about two months ago when this matter came to the surface:

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"We will not be renegotiating the contract," Carey told The Mail on Sunday. "We value Silverstone and we want the race to be a success and will work with them to help achieve that, but we won’t be redoing agreements that were previously concluded in good faith between two parties."
Now, this has been there stance since the get-go. Having stated that they would renegotiate the terms, they then said, "Well, we will offer you an extension". However, for that to be binding on both parties, they would both have to sign an addendum to the contract, and that would be a renegotiation.

The BRDC have given Liberty the opportunity to come to the table out of the gaze of the media since the time that they took over earlier this year. That would have been the most sensible option as they knew that the BRDC were going to action the get out clause, and that they had to do it before the start of the weekend. It couldn't have come as any surprise.

And what difference does it really make in the grand scheme of things if the clause was actioned prior to this year's race or sometime before next year's race.
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Old 13 Jul 2017, 03:42 (Ref:3750849)   #72
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Had not seen that before so didn't realize Liberty effectively set this in motion.

They have been pretty good so far so that's quite the misstep on their part isn't it?...i wonder what BE thinks of all this?

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And what difference does it really make in the grand scheme of things if the clause was actioned prior to this year's race or sometime before next year's race.
Not a lot of difference to me but then again I didn't just shell out several billion for the privilege to take offence lol.
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Old 13 Jul 2017, 08:31 (Ref:3750870)   #73
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OK, lets analyse what the BRDC, or any other GP promoter has to sell.

1: A one make GP3 race of identical cars: Spectator value 4 out of 10
2: A one make GP2 race of identical cars: Spectator value 6 out of 10
3: A one make Porsche 911 race: Spectator value 4 out of 10

4: An F1 race for 20 cars, 14 of which have no chance of winning: Value 8 of 10

Average Spectator value of races: 5.5 out of 10

If you factor in atmosphere,occasion,heritage etc,etc you may reach a value of 7 out of 10.

Does the price of hosting a GP represent value for money -in my view No.
Can you turn a profit on the product you're selling - Again, in my view No.

Is the asking price for a GP by BE/Liberty too high.....I would say Yes
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Old 13 Jul 2017, 08:33 (Ref:3750871)   #74
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I just hope they sit down and find a solution, a great GP is at stake here.
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Old 13 Jul 2017, 10:17 (Ref:3750886)   #75
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Basically the financial model which F1 is touting is forcing promoters to run the race at a loss. For government funded tracks this isn't really a problem, well until it becomes a political or budget issue. I think the best that a British GP can hope for is that it breaks even, be that for Silverstone or for any other British GP, because the government is never going to fund it, so therefore either the business model has to change or the British GP has to die.
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