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Old 2 Feb 2018, 10:04 (Ref:3797687)   #51
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I've said it before and I'll say it again. Take your son to an F1 race and they are going to come away feeling they could do any job there. Take your daughter and she is going to get a very different impression.
This is it in a nut shell.

If you want to look at pretty girls then nobody has any problem with that. However there’s a time and place, and this isn’t it.
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Old 2 Feb 2018, 10:11 (Ref:3797689)   #52
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PC Gone absolutely mad indeed.Just imagine Austin Texas without the Glamour or the IndyCar and Nascar Race days without the Glamour Girls.Surely they are and have been for ages Part and Parcel of a fabulous Race Day experience.The whole World is getting Unbloody believable with the PC Brigade starting to rule the rest of us!!!!
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Old 2 Feb 2018, 10:26 (Ref:3797691)   #53
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I think that's the point. Glamour. The word invokes things that us mere mortals only dream about. The girls are part of that glamorous world that Formula One used to be. If nothing else this is all part of the dumbing down of the show. From Formula One to F1, from proper cars with proper engines, to computer controlled bolides that lack any kind of excitement. Whether you think it's pc or leftie. For me it's just another unnecessary nail in a coffin that should have been buried many years ago.
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Old 2 Feb 2018, 11:13 (Ref:3797694)   #54
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The issue goes beyond Motorsport and F1.

The question is why does glamour have mean female models in often inappropriate clothing for the specific event.

F1 needs grid glamour, but Liberty are evolving F1 and the show, perhaps it shouldn't be thier job, but if stopping the use of grid girls helps to evolve what glamour means in general, and for F1 in particular then it has to be a step in the right direction.
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Old 2 Feb 2018, 11:24 (Ref:3797700)   #55
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There is your problem. Glamour means more than beautiful women. But as a human race we have always found beautiful women attractive (and I don't mean sexually). And what is inappropriate about the way they currently dress? Ergo, there is IMO a total misconception about the whole thing. This is just making the show less attractive.
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Old 2 Feb 2018, 12:25 (Ref:3797708)   #56
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There is your problem. Glamour means more than beautiful women. But as a human race we have always found beautiful women attractive (and I don't mean sexually). And what is inappropriate about the way they currently dress? Ergo, there is IMO a total misconception about the whole thing. This is just making the show less attractive.
I think that this is the wrong way to look at this subject.

I want the cars to be beautiful, and those in charge of the "show" need to make the racing attractive. And that means the cars/drivers can and do overtake each other, which to me was all the thrills that I wanted from a Formula One race.

Grid/podium girls add nothing to the action on the track, and it is track action which is all we should be concerned about.
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Old 2 Feb 2018, 12:35 (Ref:3797710)   #57
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Possibly but as I said, the whole thing used to be "glamorous" now it's a drudge. Being honest did anyone think about grid girls before this week? No, I haven't seen the outrage mentioned anywhere previously. They, along with a number of other things, were part of the show. Part of what made the show attractive to punters.

Now we've lost the varied designs of cars (the differences now are minute); we've lost the unpredictability of reliability; we've lost the art of overtaking without a DRS; we've got tyres that decide how fast a car can be driven; we've got penalties for all sorts of stuff that should be dealt with as a racing consequence; we have halo........... the list is endless.

So, the grid girl thing is just a small part of the overall problem. Formula One can never be and never has been PC. Trying to make it so is missing the entire point of the exercise. That being the case, it should be allowed to die peacefully.
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Old 2 Feb 2018, 12:36 (Ref:3797711)   #58
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BTW Scots. Apologies I didn't mean "your" problem I meant "the" problem.
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Old 2 Feb 2018, 13:02 (Ref:3797719)   #59
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Possibly but as I said, the whole thing used to be "glamorous" now it's a drudge. Being honest did anyone think about grid girls before this week? No, I haven't seen the outrage mentioned anywhere previously. They, along with a number of other things, were part of the show. Part of what made the show attractive to punters.

Actually, I can genuinely say that I have had this discussion with my sons and their wives over the last few years, and we all agreed that the "girls" served no purpose whatsoever apart from being decorations.

I stopped watching Grand Prixes a number of years ago, not because of the parading of attractive females, but because the racing no longer excited me and no matter how many "girls" are shoved on the "show", the racing will not improve.

However, I do watch the BTCC and there the "problem" is even worse because the young ladies are paraded wearing lycra type clothes that are designed to show off their proportions. But at least the racing is fun to watch.

But possibly I need to explain myself a little further. I am unable to understand why so many young ladies, which is what they should be, are to be found on every high street in the UK clad in the minimum amount of clothing that they are allowed to do without being locked up. And I also cannot understand how they think that rolling around the streets in a drunk stupor is any way attractive.

But I'm just an old fuddy-duddy, but I do wonder where these young peoples' standards are?
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Old 2 Feb 2018, 13:19 (Ref:3797726)   #60
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Not to keep banging on about this, but grid girls are not banned. There is no sporting or technical regulation outlawing grid girls. They are contractors to F1, and they are simply not coming back. If I stop hiring a builder as a contractor, builders are not banned.

This happens to, literally, thousands of contractors in every industry every year.
Ok, so they haven't been banned, instead F1 has stopped using them. The end result is the same, no grid girls on the starting grid.

Lauda would like that decision changed.

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/134182
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Old 2 Feb 2018, 14:01 (Ref:3797733)   #61
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first of all...

you're using glamour when you mean "a show". think about what you define glamour to be. it's as antiquated a term as expecting f1 to be like the 60s and 70s on-track.

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I've said it before and I'll say it again. Take your son to an F1 race and they are going to come away feeling they could do any job there. Take your daughter and she is going to get a very different impression.
yup. it doesn't even occur to boys that they *can't* do anything.

there's still things that girls "just don't do", and even just seeing a girl doing that job is a positive affirmation for young women. there's a lot of expectations regarding weight, fitness, attractiveness put on young women and a lot of negative pressure. in a male dominated environment you do *one thing* that suggests you conform to any female stereotype and people lose faith in you being "different". it's the cool girl trope (from the book/movie "gone girl"), but in the workplace.

if there was true equality - and if every motorsport workplace had the attitude of my current employer - then grid girls and the ilk wouldn't be a problem. to be honest, f1 grid girls are amongst the most respectable out there. applauding the men for doing their jobs and standing around as ornaments was probably the worst thing they did, outfits included. they on the whole looked classy, and beautifully made up. but if f1 does this, it's a step towards making the catsuit, hotpants and non-existant skirt brands look at themselves and perhaps be more appropriate.

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However, I do watch the BTCC and there the "problem" is even worse because the young ladies are paraded wearing lycra type clothes that are designed to show off their proportions. But at least the racing is fun to watch.

But possibly I need to explain myself a little further. I am unable to understand why so many young ladies, which is what they should be, are to be found on every high street in the UK clad in the minimum amount of clothing that they are allowed to do without being locked up. And I also cannot understand how they think that rolling around the streets in a drunk stupor is any way attractive.
the former i agree with. lycra and spandex... most of the btcc girls are gorgeous and yet they're made to look like clowns. they ruin really nice dresses of appropriate length with platform stripper heels, and it just looks... sad. they're hypersexualised for the sake of it. a couple of btcc teams turn up with beautiful girls in decent, tasteful dresses looking like proper brand ambassadors. that's cool. but we're not talking about them, are we?

the second bit... i refer you back to the comment i made at the start about women acting like men always being seen as distasteful. but regarding the clothing comments, understand that the pressures these girls are under to be as sexy (to men) as possible, especially on social media. a lot of it is just peacocking - no guys are going to get their hands on them and looking fabulous AND turning down guys left right and centre? all that power, it must feel like being a middle aged white man

but seriously. we're all told, everywhere, how to dress. go on gossip sites and the daily mail (*spits*). a girl photographed going to the gym in fully appropriate clothing is "flaunting" her "toned pins". not wearing a polo neck? you're "looking chesty". not grinning like a loon? "looking downbeat". we're bombarded by this weird culture that rewards nudity and showing as much of our bodies as possible. putting on a mask of makeup and a costume and going out (or taking a photo for social media then getting back in your pjs ). is it any wonder that girls are confused about how to be?

but frankly, no disrespect, but i think a lot of girls don't give a stuff about what is attractive to men or not. you don't fancy them? oh no...
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Old 2 Feb 2018, 14:22 (Ref:3797742)   #62
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Belka. Nope im usung "glamour" as it is defined. You think it's old fashioned.
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Old 2 Feb 2018, 15:00 (Ref:3797752)   #63
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A view from the BTCC:

https://www.autosport.com/btcc/news/...le-is-evolving
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Old 2 Feb 2018, 15:01 (Ref:3797753)   #64
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Well fair play, BTCC teams giving them other things to do apart from standing around holding a sign
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Old 2 Feb 2018, 15:19 (Ref:3797759)   #65
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Still calls them girls though when they are women not girls.
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Old 2 Feb 2018, 15:22 (Ref:3797763)   #66
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I mean seriously, you'd see them for all of 5 mins on the grid walk and during thr podium ceremony, not having them isn't going to fundamentally change the sport

The fact there's so much drama-rama says a lot more about the people outraged over it and their blinkered view of the world than it does liberty trying to get some good publicity for the sport by making a step towards equality.

Mark my words, in 20 years time we'll be looking back on grid girls and wincing as much as we do now to low cockpits with no seat belts, hay bales on track and various other things we look back on as relics of the past now.
Well if you go off of Liberty's statement one can see it's PC and caving into a few rabble rousers that has ticked people like me off. If they'll do it for this, what's next?

Also how does getting rid of jobs that some women want, make them "equal"? Again people seem to be deaf to the fact that these jobs have given women opportunity to make contacts and secure all sorts of jobs or in one case I know of, put themselves through university. How does taking things away make people "equal"?
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Old 2 Feb 2018, 16:02 (Ref:3797772)   #67
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Well if you go off of Liberty's statement one can see it's PC and caving into a few rabble rousers that has ticked people like me off. If they'll do it for this, what's next?

Also how does getting rid of jobs that some women want, make them "equal"? Again people seem to be deaf to the fact that these jobs have given women opportunity to make contacts and secure all sorts of jobs or in one case I know of, put themselves through university. How does taking things away make people "equal"?

There have been cases of young women who have resorted to prostitution to help them go through university.

Does that mean that prostitution is OK?
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Old 2 Feb 2018, 17:20 (Ref:3797791)   #68
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It's more PC BS, driven by a small minority of whiners who have to impose "equality" by driving everything down to their level at the bottom of the toilet. In the end it's jealous unattractive women disturbed by attractive women having a shot at a job that gets them attention, new boyfriends/husbands and access to potential jobs up the ladder. I known many "grid girls" over 15 years that have used those jobs to make contacts and secure jobs in marketing, accounting, sales, management, etc. in and out of motorsport. It's all about who you know and these jobs allow a ground floor opportunity to make contacts in industry. That clearly disturbs the lazy and unattractive who *****ed and moaned to Liberty about this "oppression" and so here we are.

Formula 1 has always been about glamour, excitement, speed. You chisel that away and what do you have, Formula E and who gives a damn about that?

We've seen sports strip away their core values in favor of feminizing their sport and in the end those audiences are just not there. I've been around the block a few times and no matter how hard you try to feminize sports and especially motorsport, I have never seen that many women interested. There are a few ladies that participate in some of the clubs and a few that drive and a few that spectate and hey whatever, have at it but that is the exception not the rule. I have known many women around the world and I can think of very, very few that have any interest in watching motorsports or getting their hands dirty doing so. It's fools gold to chase that non existent market.
You do realize these are by and large, roles that are predominantly women right? So you're arguing for continuing the structure of keeping women in certain roles with certain paths to reach them that men don't have to.

Accountants: 60.3% women
Advertising sales agents are 50/50, but men don't have to parade themselves half naked to get those roles.
Models, product promoters: 78.4% women
Sales in general is around 60% women, but when you see the specific roles that are primarily women, like models and product promoters, it leaves the roles less reliant on looks more for men. So just because some grid girls have moved on to other positions doesn't mean it hasn't limited the scope of possibilities and kept "men's work" and "women's work" alive.

Source: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...8wNHS12MME6ng4

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I've said it before and I'll say it again. Take your son to an F1 race and they are going to come away feeling they could do any job there. Take your daughter and she is going to get a very different impression.
This right here is perfectly said.

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Ok, so they haven't been banned, instead F1 has stopped using them. The end result is the same, no grid girls on the starting grid.

Lauda would like that decision changed.

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/134182
Color me shocked one of the guys that benefited from attractive women serving no purpose other than to celebrate him and glamorize his existence wants to keep them...
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Old 2 Feb 2018, 17:27 (Ref:3797797)   #69
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obviously two heavily entrenched sides here but what i am struggling to understand is how 20 odd girls dressed in the same costume has become a synonym for glamour?

these are not prestigious high fashion outfits but rather some pretty generic costumes, at best they are of the flight attendant variety costumes and at worst some sort of spandex fetish costume.

so is this really an example of glamour?

seems to me, the wardrobe part of it anyways, this is actually the exact opposite of what the word glamour means.
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Old 2 Feb 2018, 18:42 (Ref:3797816)   #70
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With BTCC, the problem isn't just the fact they look ridiculous, it's the perverted cameraman who borders on almost illegal images. Zooming in on a crotch shot of skin tight lycra? There are times that the BTCC cameraman has bordered on illegal. His name will be on a register somewhere.

Whilst we're arguing about what glamour means -

attractive in an exciting and special way: says the dictionary.

I fail to see what is exciting or special about people standing around holding signs. Attractive, certainly. But exciting and special?

Any fan who says he will now watch less motorsport due to women not standing around holding signs is a fan that motorsport does not need. They are not interested in the sport. But there are many websites that will cater for their needs.
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Old 2 Feb 2018, 23:22 (Ref:3797881)   #71
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obviously two heavily entrenched sides here but what i am struggling to understand is how 20 odd girls dressed in the same costume has become a synonym for glamour?

these are not prestigious high fashion outfits but rather some pretty generic costumes, at best they are of the flight attendant variety costumes and at worst some sort of spandex fetish costume.

so is this really an example of glamour?

seems to me, the wardrobe part of it anyways, this is actually the exact opposite of what the word glamour means.
Agree!

And I will say it again...

IBTL!

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Old 3 Feb 2018, 03:22 (Ref:3797913)   #72
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obviously two heavily entrenched sides here but what i am struggling to understand is how 20 odd girls dressed in the same costume has become a synonym for glamour?

these are not prestigious high fashion outfits but rather some pretty generic costumes, at best they are of the flight attendant variety costumes and at worst some sort of spandex fetish costume.

so is this really an example of glamour?

seems to me, the wardrobe part of it anyways, this is actually the exact opposite of what the word glamour means.
a good example of that dodgy outfits is the dtm girls, who wear particularly unflattering costumes that look terrible on otherwise awesome figures. they're always too short in the body for the girls, and frankly it looks tacky and very uncomfortable. they also have a specific instagram account for posting pictures of the girls, which is great for promoting the brand who sponsors them but seriously? can we girls at least get a hot male paddock shirtless calendar or something to make up for it?

it'a not that i don't get where the girls are coming from with their reasons for doing the work. hell, i will be forever envious of the monster girls. in exchange for wearing some dubious outfits and humouring a herd of neckbeards they get to work some really cool events and they look fantastic whilst doing it. what a great job! shame they can't see to employ guys to work alongside them.
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Old 3 Feb 2018, 09:18 (Ref:3797981)   #73
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My first and likely only post on the subject. I’ve been looking at how the situation has been reported away from a forum. (No surprises here ) Not being a follower, I didn’t realise the BTCC teams provided their own team member(s) for the job of marking the grid position(s). So choice of gender, clothing, etc down to them. I presume in F1 that is not the case, and it’s down to the circuit promoter to provide the necessary pairs of hands? If so, then the BTCC approach is, IMO, the better one, and maybe F1 should adopt something similar rather than handle it the way Liberty have.

My local ITV news covered the subject yesterday, and interviewed a young lady who was, as part of her chosen career, involved. Of course, she was disappointed, and said that she enjoyed the race meeting work- but that will surely be the case, as otherwise she wouldn’t do it..... ITV also showed results of their ‘pole’, that showed 73% of voters thought the F1 decision wrong. But, was the result due to those holding the opposite view not bothering to vote? And how was the question asked? Easy to manipulate results by the way a question is worded.....

Watching F1 grid walks on tv, it is usually so hectic that the position board holders are hardly noticeable. I do find the podium ceremony a little bizarre though when the drivers walk up stairs lined by applauding ladies.....

And as an off topic aside already mentioned, get rid of the celebs, or stop the camera obsession with them. I really couldn’t care less that some sports or music industry ‘star’ has got a freebie to be there!
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Old 3 Feb 2018, 16:33 (Ref:3798052)   #74
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Originally Posted by Peter Mallett View Post
So some people have lost, albeit part time but fun, jobs for no really good reason.
I agree Peter no one that I have spoken with was complaining about the use of grid girls, including many women ...
This is a silly mistake that did not need to be messed with ...

Last edited by JeremySmith; 3 Feb 2018 at 16:39.
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Old 3 Feb 2018, 16:36 (Ref:3798053)   #75
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Originally Posted by bella View Post
good news for equality, and making women feel welcome in the sport.

they can get "proper" jobs in motorsport to get involved like the rest of us do.
But many women do have proper jobs in Motorsport ! Grid girls it seems are happy in their work from what I read ...
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