History of a Lola T492 Sports 2000 chassis?

[haggispeed]

Hi Graham, couple of questions for you. 1) Just for my own interest, do you know what the Clubmans car was in Brighton?
2) Whereabout in the US was John Cahill based?, only asking as I have a contact over in California who knows the historic scene there pretty well and may be of help if we have some specific questions.
(and yes, I'm still here )

[911thillclimber]

Thanks Andy, will research it!

Tony:

Glad you are still 'hovering' around!

I know nothing of the Clubman's car other than it sold first and quickly.
Les/Dennis fancied the Thunder Sport class and the spec of this Lola was right. Dennis went 'F5000' I think and sold the Lola to help with the ££££.
The Lola was modified when they bought it.

John C was in the mid west area, not California, but was instrumental with a few others in getting S 2000 going in the USA with SCCA.

His name crops-up in several places.

I hope Mark in the USA can get to him as he is not critical to sorting the HU 42 route.
PLEASE ask your contact Tony, you never know the outcome.
If the car is not HU 42, goodness knows.

[911thillclimber]

Contact with John Cahill has been made!
John is sunning himself until May (!) so is away from his records, but:

1
His replacement 492 was orange bodied and had a large rear tube frame for sure.
This makes it HU 42 according to Lola records.
2
He sold it to Mike Gagliardo in Chicargo, Mike is no longer with us after an accident in a racing Corvette.

More info when John is back home.
A little bit more info to close the gap then. T 492 # HU 42 sold in 1980 to Gagliardo in Chicargo then arrives in a Brighton Farm a few years later.

sounds far-fetched?

[911thillclimber]

Could the man in the Brighton free holding be Chris Alford in 1985?

Anyone with a contact for Chris please??

Graham.

[Andy Turnock]

Not sure if this is the same man but i can't imagine that there are many Chris Alford's in the instructing game.

http://www.ards.co.uk/ARDS-Instructo...ALFORD/282.htm.

If not speak to the HSCC which is the club he has been linked with for some time.

Getting closer to the end.

[RickT]

Hi Graham

Check out Post#174 back in Nov 2009 - I think you already tried the Chris Alford route!

Keep up the hard work though, interesting reading as always !

Cheers
Richard

[paulSenna]

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...rd#post2977802

The Chris Alford posting.

[911thillclimber]

I have emailed Chris tonight to see if he is the farm owning gent from 85 who Dennis/Les bought the cars from.
I have already apologised if I've contacted him before.

You all memorise this thread better than I!

There is something disjointed here but cannot put my finger on it.
It seems a far fetched thing the HU 42 came back to UK modified.
Equally, it came back stock and was modified UNLESS it was tweeked for ThunderSports before sold in 85.

I know one of the Thunder Sport 492's has been returned to stock spec quite recently. I know the chassis number too, HU 66 which was run in Thund sports by Richard Burden..

Something must break soon!

[Andy Clegg]

Chris Alford was an Instructor at Silverstone in 2002 when I sold him a photo. Try HSCC if no luck.

[911thillclimber]

Thanks Andy, he still is an ARDS instructor at Silverstone.
I have found the scribbles I took when I actually spoke to him way back.

He has no recollection of an orange 492 only Golden Yellow that was owned by Doug Moseley in '86 and we know that is not my car as Alan Humberstone had it by then!

The big thing at the moment is Lola records show only one orange 'large tube' car being made. It was HU 42 and went to HAAS. This car went to John Cahill and was sold to Mike Gagliardo. These are the facts.

It would have to get from the USA to Brighton from 80 to 85.

I have emailed Mrs Gagliardo at the Veg Oil company in the hope I can get some info in John Cahill's absence till May.
I think if John knew who Mike sold it to he would said so.

Nobody on the UK Sports 2000 forum has said they are aware of a 492 coming to the UK in that period.

As ever, this little car is cloaked in mystery.

Both John and Mike were from the Chicago area in the USA.

[SAMD]

Originally Posted by 911thillclimber

Thanks Andy, he still is an ARDS instructor at Silverstone.
I have found the scribbles I took when I actually spoke to him way back.

He has no recollection of an orange 492 only Golden Yellow that was owned by Doug Moseley in '86 and we know that is not my car as Alan Humberstone had it by then!

The big thing at the moment is Lola records show only one orange 'large tube' car being made. It was HU 42 and went to HAAS. This car went to John Cahill and was sold to Mike Gagliardo. These are the facts.

It would have to get from the USA to Brighton from 80 to 85.

I have emailed Mrs Gagliardo at the Veg Oil company in the hope I can get some info in John Cahill's absence till May.
I think if John knew who Mike sold it to he would said so.

Nobody on the UK Sports 2000 forum has said they are aware of a 492 coming to the UK in that period.

As ever, this little car is cloaked in mystery.

Both John and Mike were from the Chicago area in the USA.

If the car was even mildly modified it would not be able to run in S2 but it would be fine in Thundersports I imagine. Therefore if it was brought over to run in Thundersports the S2 guys would/could be unaware of it.

[911thillclimber]

Indeed, but the Thundersport guys are not aware of it either, thus the car came over and was never used.

Maybe it is that simple?

Somebody buys the USA car (the farmer/dealer) with Thundersport in mind, but never realises the dream, so sells the car (to Dennis/Len) who also fancies the Thundersport slot.

The key could rest with finding the Farmer and/or the passing of the car from Mike Gigliardo to someone.

How would the'farmer' know the Gagliardo car was for sale, and why buy it/import it at a high cost.

Or, HU 42 is a red herring and this car is a UK car taken off the circuit for Thundersport and never made it...BUT it is the only orange /large tube car Lola made which did go to the USA!

If you go round in ever decreasing circles you end up in a one spot.

I hope to get there soon and write a book about this adventure!

[Nordic]

In addition to the long range tanks what modifications were allowed for the S2000, 200mile races held in 1981?

I don't think the series was run again in 82, it was talked about for sure at the end of 81, maybe the regs for 82 were going to free up tyre/wheel choice?

There was at least one Lola S2000 running in Libra events at Mallory in 81. Would a car have to conform to S2000 regs for Libra race?

Mind you the USA is a heck of a long way to get a Libra car from.

[911thillclimber]

Have you Googled that 81 race series at all?
I can't find any reference to long distance S 2000 stuff.
I think HU 42 was still with Mike G in Chicago in 81, but I do not know if Mike actually raced it either.
I hope his wife will give me more details.

I need to break two names;
1
Person after Mike G to see if HU42 is still in the USA (of the 101 492#s made, 57 are 'missing', most went to the USA) and
2
The person who sold the Lola to Dennis and Len.

This is going to make finding Dennis look like a stroll in the park.

I would have thought finding the man in the Farm/Brighton quite easy?

[Clive Brown]

We've got where we've got by establishing the sequence through which things occurred, so I would suggest that now is not the time to abandon that process....

(i) Are we sure that your car is even a T492? Weren't there T494/6/8s? This might explain the wider wheels/tyres on the car that Dennis bought and subsequently resold to the Humberstones.

(ii) I believe that the SCCA used to run classes for two-seat sports car of varying engine sizes. If the car is HU42, could it have been converted to an SCCA class spec in the USA after its career in US S2000?

(iii) Getting back to the car that Dennis bought, if it had once been a pukka S2000 T492, who fitted the bigger wheels and tyres and the long range tank? If the car is HU42, was the conversion work undertaken over here, or Stateside?

[Tim Barry]

Graham

Could the Sussex farmer have been Trevor Stiles? He raced FF1600 at Lydden and Brands and I believe wanted to try Thundersports.

Clive

Fairly sure there were no such animals as T494/6/8's.

Tim

[Clive Brown]

Tim

I wasn't sure if there were T494/6/8s, but according to the Lola Heritage website, there were at least T496/8s, and interestingly, used in SCCA competitions.

Oh, and there was also at least one T497!

[Tim Barry]

They must have been US market only as don't remember seeing any over here in Thundersports. But you never know what lies tucked away almost forgotten in a quiet garage nowadays...

[Clive Brown]

It looks like there were a dozen T497s built, T497/HU1-12. They were built for SCCA 'C' sports racers to take a Cosworth BDH, a 1300cc motor with 190bhp. Looking at pictures, the cars seem to have F3 size wheels and tyres, which would be about right for that sort of horsepower.

[morninggents]

When were the T497s built? And the T496/8s?

[Clive Brown]

As far as I can see from an admittedly superficial trawl, the T497 dates back to 1978.

The problem we face is that whilst we know the car can't be a T490 because of the side radiator apertures, Dennis's 1985 Autosport advert appears to be our only current evidence that the car is actually a T492!

How did Dennis know it was a T492? Probably because he saw the chassis plate (!), but we don't know that for sure. On sheer weight of numbers, it is likely that 911thillclimber's car probably is a T492, but we should be aware that there are other possibilities.

[911thillclimber]

We do not know if this is HU42.
I have tried to contact Mike Gagliardo's wife in Chicago but no answer. I am not holding my breath.
I cannot find any evidence MikeG raced the Orange 'John Cahill' Lola T 492, only the difficult issues that surrounded his death in the Corvette.
So far, the route is blocked. John C may have more facts, but does not get home until May.


Taking Clive's thought of the car being a 492 or another series, an S2000 friend has given me a contact in Lola who worked on the 492's so i will contact him for some clues as to the differences of the 492 and others.

When i bought the car Mike insisted it was a 492 (because I thought it a 490)
The large tube rear frame kills the 490 theory.

There are two neat 'radiator tube' holes in the front bulkhead I presume cut by John Sch/TonyH. These hole continue through the 'passenger' side sidepod and into the engine bay.
The rolling chassis I bought had no pipes there BUT Mike gave me a set of factory 492 radiator tubes for the stock side mounted rads. Still have them.

The big tank looks very factory and not DIY at all.
The space behind the drivers seat is full of mounting holes in the floor, and one of Tony's pics show all the fuel pumps in there, look high pressure for fuel injection (twin Facets).

It is v interesting that it may be a factory 'option'.
I know one of the early 490's was ordered as a hillclimb car for example, but the Lola sales sheet shows it to be just a S2000 T 490.

Anyone have an opinion on the possible Farmer's name above?

I think the USA lead is going nowhere, so the farmer name is key to moving further back in time.

I have asked Keith Messer again if he remembers an Orange Lola T4 92 in thunder sports, but he has no recolection at all of such a car, but admits to a bad memory!

I thought you had got bored Clive of this saga, please you are still here to keep things rolling.

[911thillclimber]

Holes for rad:

[Clive Brown]

The front rad holes were either made by AH when he transferred the bits across from the wrecked T490/HU6 to T49*/HUxyz, or by Messrs. Harman and Schneider; as the holes are very neat, I'm inclined to think the latter. Perhaps one of them can remember whether or not they installed the front rad., or if the car came to them from Alan with it already installed.

[911thillclimber]

There is only one shot of the car from Tony of the front (as opposed to the side) and it has the rad, slightly wider than the front bulk head.
Tony still looks at this thread, so will chirp-up I'm sure.

The differences between the 492 v 496 v 497 are very small bar the engine type.
I've asked for details on the Lola Heritage site.
Also trying to contact Trevor Stiles. He races FF even now i think.
Again, contact being sought.

This all casts the net out further.

496 and 497's

http://www.lolaheritage.co.uk/histor...ottini/001.jpg

http://www.lolaheritage.co.uk/histor...lrath/001b.jpg

http://www.lolaheritage.co.uk/histor.../Watt/002b.jpg