Should Qualifying mean more?

[MarkG]

I'm not a fan of DRS, KERS & trick tyres, but I have to admit, whilst F1 cars have the aero performance such as they have, then these are necessary to produce some spectacle in F1, and if it has a knock-on effect of making qualifying less exciting, then that's a fair price to pay for better races..
For many years we have had the best car starting at the front and the race is effectively over because aerodynamics prevent racing, and drivers becoming world champions when maybe they shouldn't have. Qualifying was exciting, true, but that's because it was effectively the race finishing order.
You look at MotoGP.. those guys have exciting qualifying sessions because they want to be at the front, even though they can have a great race from the 3rd row with a good start, all because they can RACE and are not stymied by aerodynamics. Bike champions have really earned their titles. Bike racing doesn't need gimmicks, car racing does(where massive aero is involved).

[ECW Dan Selby]

Exactly, because we'll then just go back to the elephant in the room argument of "get rid of the aero", and what, make the cars go slow?

Either way, no one will be fully happy. This is a great happy medium, although we could probably do without DRS, perhaps.

But i'd like to give it til the end of the season, at least.

Selby

[Marbot]

Overtaking was generally easier to do in the 80's and 90's than it was just a year ago. Only since aerodynamics really became the main performance differentiator, have we seen that it has become increasingly more difficult for cars to overtake each other.

F1 should never have been allowed to continue down that path, but it's probably the easiest route to take in order to get more speed from your car. And probably the FIA came up against a brick wall on many an occasion with regard to some team or other having just spent 40 mil on a wind tunnel and then being told that they couldn't use it to its full potential.

I have no doubt that pole will be just as important as it ever was at this weekends Monaco GP, and for exactly the same reason that it was so important before.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Overtaking was generally easier to do in the 80's and 90's than it was just a year ago. Only since aerodynamics really became the main performance differentiator, have we seen that it has become increasingly more difficult for cars to overtake each other.

F1 should never have been allowed to continue down that path, but it's probably the easiest route to take in order to get more speed from your car. And probably the FIA came up against a brick wall on many an occasion with regard to some team or other having just spent 40 mil on a wind tunnel and then being told that they couldn't use it to its full potential.

I have no doubt that pole will be just as important as it ever was at this weekends Monaco GP, and for exactly the same reason that it was so important before.

Yep... totally agree.

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

I wouldn't worry yourself JamesH. You're happy with the new F1. Most people are.

It just makes me very sad. I felt the sport was making good moves since Max was gone but this year has spoiled all that. And soon the 2013 regs will come and kill the whole thing off.

I don't like what I see. I miss the driver versus the clock, hour long qualifying battles. I resent the unfair DRS system. KERS is not justified. The cars are heading towards spec ever more. The calendar is ever more third world. I just hate this new direction to placate armchair idiots whilst the trackside fan is shafted.

A golden generation of drivers wasted.

I don't mind some of the changes to the qualifying format [the move away from the hour] but I agree with the rest of your post. I was dismayed when I saw the new chasis regulations a few years ago. Ugly, narrow cars with front and rear wings that made them look like building scaffolding on wheels. They missed an opportunity there to perhaps emulate the cars of the ealy 1990's. Smaller wings, no raised noses and a sleeker symmetry to the design.

KERS, DRS, DRS zones. All these cold and complex acrynoms the commentators are forced to explain and reexplain again. It's like they are explaining again and again how crap the sport is that needs all these odd little gimmicks.

I shudder when I see "DRS zone on". I do like the circus but a circus has its place in the tent. When I watch F1 I want to see a sport not circus entertainment packed with gimmicks.

The problem is I'm not sure these gimmicks are a stop gap. Once installed they have a nasty habit of becoming permanent.

Good entertainment maybe but I'm not sure F1 is a sport anymore with these gimmicks.

[Adam43]

I have a lot of sympathy with what you are saying Knowlesy. Except:

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

A golden generation of drivers wasted.

Rubbish, they are just rubbish.

Closer to topic. A few points IMHO. The ease of overtaking in the '80s is overstated. The standard of races in recent years was not that bad. We need to hone what we have now, there needs to be some 'artificial' variables. Variables used to come from major developments and inconsistencies. The former is regulated out (change the regs every year!?! ), the later is lost due to the impressive professionalism of the teams.

And now on topic and to only add weight to similar comments above. Q has always interested me, but it shouldn't mean more. It is just a means to set the grid. A well driven balls out lap is great to watch, but it isn't the end game.

[strider]

I'm with Knowlesy on most of this. This year's races have mostly been spectacular entertainment, but they haven't been motor racing. It depends what you want.

As for a golden generation of drivers, I don't know. You certainly have three outstanding ones (in (alphabetical order) Alonso, Hamilton and Vettel. Then you have another threesome half a step behind, Button, Rosberg and Webber.

Let's see how this weekend shakes out. Hamilton thinks he's going to win, but Alonso and Vettel may have a say in that. So will the team strategists.

[JeremySmith]

The end show is good this year, I am not sure if it is motor racing to be honest?

Correction to my post, it's not pure racing and I know it, better not to BS myself...

[wnut]

Where is the racing purity in having a car qualify on pole and everyone behind it hamstrung by wake turbulence?

As I see it DRS is just a compensation for the wake turbulence generated by the front running car.

Alonso and Webber backed up behind Petrov's Renault which was over a second a lap slower in Abu Dahbi was not motor racing.
Petrov keeping them behind was not skill it was just consistency.

If the front car is just a sitting duck then the position should swap back the following lap. How many lead changes have we seen on lap 4 when the DRS first becomes operative? Zero!

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by wnut

Where is the racing purity in having a car qualify on pole and everyone behind it hamstrung by wake turbulence?

If you think of aero as being a driver aid, then it's not been pure for a while now, as it.

The DRS is F1s way of staying ahead of other series in terms of lap times, whilst at the same time providing a means to lessen the effects on the cars abilities to 'race' from doing just that.

If the FIA had taken away 90% of the down force this season, lots of people would have thrown street parties. But then they also probably would have strung up poor Mr Todt having seen the lap times from the Australian GP qualifying session!

I like the set up as it is now. Monaco qualifying will be just like it ever was. But maybe pole isn't the 'be-all-and-end-all' that it used to be at other circuits.

[davyboy]

If you look past the technicalities of the tyres, DRS, KERS etc... the effect they've had on the spectacle this year has been largely positive. I watch Formula One to see exciting racing on track, something we've been rationed to only in wet conditions during recent years. We've actually seen plenty of it in the dry this year and I find that more enjoyable than the high speed procession whose order can only be changed via a pitstop.

[strider]

Originally Posted by Marbot

I like the set up as it is now. Monaco qualifying will be just like it ever was. But maybe pole isn't the 'be-all-and-end-all' that it used to be at other circuits.

As it turned out a bit of a damp squib, especially at the end, but Vettel's lap underlined for me that he is currently the man.

But I want to hear far more that Perez is fit and well after that accident, even if they don't let him race tomorrow, and I hope they don't unless both he and the car are 100%.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by strider

As it turned out a bit of a damp squib, especially at the end, but Vettel's lap underlined for me that he is currently the man.

Had it not been for Perez's accident, it may have been a pretty good session. But Vettel, as you say, is currently the man.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Had it not been for Perez's accident, it may have been a pretty good session. But Vettel, as you say, is currently the man.

Had it not been for Perez's accident think Lewis may have taken pole position?

My thoughts are with Perez at this time, I hope the young chap is okay..

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Had it not been for Perez's accident think Lewis may have taken pole position?

No.

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

My thoughts are with Perez at this time, I hope the young chap is okay..

He is.

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/2...res-for-perez/

[JeremySmith]

Thank you Scott I saw that mate..

Lewis did a 1.13 something in Q2 I thought?

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Thank you Scott I saw that mate..

Lewis did a 1.13 something in Q2 I thought?

He did a 1:14.275.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by Marbot

He did a 1:14.275.

Okay thanks it was a little early in the morning for my eyes..

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Okay thanks it was a little early in the morning for my eyes..

Hamilton was the fastest (just) in that session, but it seemed like Vettel was just warming up.

Button did the first 1:13 time during Q3, and Vettel bet that easily on a lap where he missed a few apexes. Hamilton could have crept ahead of Button's time (maybe), but Vettel is just too good. It is what it is.

[JeremySmith]

Okay thank's Scott that was my mistake I thought it was Lewis who put in the first 1.13 but is was Jenson..

[strider]

Interestingly, Alonso thinks Hamilton would have got pole if the session had run normally. I can't imagine him saying that unless he believes it to be true.

[strider]

And now it gets worse for Hamilton.

[JeremySmith]

Ohh dear that is a shame..

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by strider

Interestingly, Alonso thinks Hamilton would have got pole if the session had run normally. I can't imagine him saying that unless he believes it to be true.

Maybe. Maybe not. It may be that Alonso is firing shots at Vettel, indirectly.

Originally Posted by strider

And now it gets worse for Hamilton.

Button had the bad luck at Monaco last year. Maybe it's Hamilton's turn this time?

[blaffer]

After Perez' crash, I thought they would not restart the session.
But thanks to a Toyota jeep, the safety barrier was reinstated and deemed safe enough to allow the continuation of the qualifying session.