THE LAST Villeneuve thread (Still F1 related)

[jhansen]

Or, he could have been another one to lose out to Fisi in the team-mate battle. Where would that leave him? Losing out to Button and Fisi in the last two years of his career. You want JV in F1 at any cost, where as JV has more prudent reasons for justifying his career path. If you were a true JV fan you'd want a respectful drive for him, not some desperate attempt to stay in the F1 circus. There are places and achievments beyond F1 you know.

Would someone just put this guy in an Audi R8 at La Sarthe this year!

[james_williams]

I don't think JV will return. I liked the guy, but he will ask too much money and he also doesn't like doing sponsorship appearances so is not a attractive propery to a potential F1 employer.

Shame really!

You can never belive the press, but with all the potential moving around in F1 seats rumoured for 2005, I haven't seen much reference to JV.

Sorry Teddy, I don't think JV will be back. (That's my thoughts anyway!)

[ASCII Man]

Originally posted by TeddyG
I would also like to add that I think JV's age shouldn't really be an issue. He is only 32 after all (Michael is 36 I believe!) and still has plenty of seasons in him should he be given a ride.

His age would be the least of concerns, Prost won his fourth and last title at the age of 38.

Anyway, of all the teams that have seats available for next season Williams is his best chance with most probably both drivers out at the end of the year and 2 potential replacements firmly locked at their current teams.
Renault too looks like a possibility but that's a bit unlikely in my opinion, maybe replacing Trulli but somehow i doubt that being a Briatore protegé and all.
And then there's Toyota and Jaguar.... Hmmmm... Nevermind!

Plus i don't think Jacques would consider Sauber or any other privateer team just to fool around in midfield again, or worse...

[daniel27]

TeddyG is right. No one here can say conclusively whether or not JV will drive in F1 again. It's a topic worthy of discussion especially considering not only Peter Sauber and Flavio have voiced strong opinions on JV's ability to bring value to not only a team but also the sport, others include: Coultard, Button, Fisichella, Brawn, Newey, Panis, Irvine, Frank Williams, Damon Hill, Barrichello, Schumacher and Ecclestone etc. etc. Whether anybody likes it or not is irregardless to fact that JV still does have a chance to claim a seat, a slim one maybe but a chance nonetheless. Anyway there isn't much more to add to the topic and as we all know JV inflames passions in this community, it surely can't be bad to have a driver like that on the grid!!, maybe we should wait until there is any evidence of a JV comeback or an official retirement announcement.

People should, as TeddyG has stated, be able to talk about Villeneuve and his chances of landing a F1 drive. Furthermore I fully agree that there has been selective censorship by the moderators on these issues. I would agrue forcibly that 'baiting' and 'personal attacks' on all forums are a result of comments made by those who offer excessive and insulting criticisms to those who only seek to make positive comments about, in this case, F1 and its drivers. People making positive comments about JV and his chances are not 'baiting' those who only offer negativity and outright hostility to the poster and the driver in question. Closing the thread down only encourages these people to continue in such a manner. In short you are not addressing the issue.

I repeat that we should probably let this topic lie until we have some real news about JV and his future.

[TeddyG]

Originally posted by jhansen
If you were a true JV fan you'd want a respectful drive for him, not some desperate attempt to stay in the F1 circus. There are places and achievments beyond F1 you know.

If I were a true JV fan? Oh man don't go there! In terms of Formula one I think that taking a year out isn't very good for his chances in 2005. It doesn't mean he doesn't have a shot as I clearly believe he still does, but still being in F1 would be better for landing a race winning seat in 2005. You assume that Jacques would lose out to Fisi, since I am a true JV fan I think he would come out on top and even if he didn't still it would be fun to watch the battle between those two.

See unlike other people who support their drivers and only want to see them win race after race and dominate a la Shumacher in 2002 I want to see real racing. If my driver loses but still puts up a damn good fight I am pleased. I support JV because I think he puts up a good fight when given a car that gives him a chance.

[ASCII Man]

Originally posted by james_williams
I liked the guy, but he will ask too much money and he also doesn't like doing sponsorship appearances so is not a attractive propery to a potential F1 employer.

And you still think that after last year he would ask for the same salary?
I'm sorry to tell you but nobody's that stupid, or naïve.


I suppose i don't have to wait too long for the losers, malcontents and schadenfreude enthausiasts to barge in and "joke" about how he would be just like that...

[jhansen]

TeddyG...if JV were not a former WDC then I would share your sentiment. But the fact is, he won the '97 WDC. Hasn't he wasted enough of his talent at BAR? Despite what you think, I do believe JV has some talent. His results prove that. I say the move away in 2004 is a good thing. Like I said, I'd love to see him drive at Le Mans, or even at Indy again. But, I'm one of the few that see racing outside of F1 as a good thing. Should Williams come calling in 2005 that would be a bonus. If not, he's already moved on, scored a WDC and will be living happy. Either way it's a win for him, but you don't seem to see it that way.

[Mr V]

You got my hopes up when i say the title...the LAST Villeneuve thread

[Wrex]

Teddy, I dont think in the history of Ten-tenths, so much garbage has come from one poster in one thread.

Did it ever occur to you (unlikely I know) that:

a) There are some posts you dont see (because we delete the bad ones)

b) That the thread was closed because it was becoming a JV bash fest?

For future reference, try to PM a mod before making an ass of yourself (far too late for that this time).

As for our Zero tolerance policy, you can get on board with it, or find somewhere else. Harsh yes, but thats the way it is.

We dont wont the most members, we want the best. Oddly enough, only members that dont fit into that category have an issue with that.

[006_007]

Originally posted by Wrex
Teddy, I dont think in the history of Ten-tenths, so much garbage has come from one poster in one thread.

Did it ever occur to you (unlikely I know) that:

a) There are some posts you dont see (because we delete the bad ones)

b) That the thread was closed because it was becoming a JV bash fest?

For future reference, try to PM a mod before making an ass of yourself (far too late for that this time).

As for our Zero tolerance policy, you can get on board with it, or find somewhere else. Harsh yes, but thats the way it is.

We dont wont the most members, we want the best. Oddly enough, only members that dont fit into that category have an issue with that.

Not trying to pick a fight with a moderator here (especially as it is my first day on this board....) But I can honestly say I do not see the "garbage" in this thread that you are referring to.

I have had the misfortune to belong to several other bulletin boards where the vast majority of the posts were true garbage, and while browsing your forums here I have not witnessed that yet. I will keep searching.

For my future information, is there any other drivers other then JV that I am not allowed to post about? I do not want to step on any toes ;-)

TJ

[Wrex]

Welcome TJ


There is nothing to stop people discussing any F1 driver here, including JV. We are more than happy for a potential JV comeback to be discussed as long as, like all threads, the forum rules are followed, and it does'nt cause a problem.

This particular issue to date has a 100% problem rate. The anti-JV's wont accept the possiblilty of a return, the the pro-JV's cant accept its unlikelyhood.

In short, we moderators get tired of cleaning up, especially the same mess over and over. There are many good JV fan forums disussing this issue, and it may be more appropriate if they dont wish to read negative comments.

TG pointed out 1 in 4 people think he'll be back, fair enough, but the reality is 3/4 dont! And if people cant accept that 75% of the members are going to disagree or laugh, this probably is'nt the right place to talk about it.

Added to this, Moderators dont take kindly to public critism, especially when we are contrained from publically tearing them a new bum as we would sometimes like to do. In future, complaints can be PM'd to a mod, posted in Announcements and Feedback, or PM'd to the admin.

As for whats on and what is'nt, please refer to the F.A.Q. and our thread titled Zero Tolerance.

Happy posting


Wrex

[006_007]

Originally posted by Wrex
Welcome TJ


There is nothing to stop people discussing any F1 driver here, including JV. We are more than happy for a potential JV comeback to be discussed as long as, like all threads, the forum rules are followed, and it does'nt cause a problem.

This particular issue to date has a 100% problem rate. The anti-JV's wont accept the possiblilty of a return, the the pro-JV's cant accept its unlikelyhood.

In short, we moderators get tired of cleaning up, especially the same mess over and over. There are many good JV fan forums disussing this issue, and it may be more appropriate if they dont wish to read negative comments.

TG pointed out 1 in 4 people think he'll be back, fair enough, but the reality is 3/4 dont! And if people cant accept that 75% of the members are going to disagree or laugh, this probably is'nt the right place to talk about it.

Added to this, Moderators dont take kindly to public critism, especially when we are contrained from publically tearing them a new bum as we would sometimes like to do. In future, complaints can be PM'd to a mod, posted in Announcements and Feedback, or PM'd to the admin.

As for whats on and what is'nt, please refer to the F.A.Q. and our thread titled Zero Tolerance.

Happy posting


Wrex

Fair enough.

JV comments can be classified as trolling, due to the emotions it raises on both sides.

I love the information about that warn button thingy. That is a great feature, hopefully one I will never have to use.

TJ

[Kirk]

TG: I for one applaud you for standing up. I felt the same way when the last JV thread was abruptly closed (again). As for JV returning to a mid-pack team for 2005, I think he will think long and hard before doing so. Judging from some of the comments in the past six months, it appears that Williams will not consider signing JV now or in the future. PH's doing I feel as FW has only spoken positively about him. However, having said that, most comments were made before it became apparent that Ralf was on his way out also. So, the thought process may have changed; but if you discount Williams, and assuming JV will only consider a top team, suddenly his options for 2005 are vastly reduced. As for Jacque's mindset at present, he is staying fit and when asked if his days in F1 are over, his response "I hope not". A positive answer and good to hear.

[nkh]

Originally posted by Super Tourer
What would JV bring to a team like Sauber? This a question not a critical point.

A year in a blue car instead of whoever proves not to be Ferrari material in 2003, then later a shiny red car like his dad?

Sauber would get a cheap driver with a good name and something to prove, JV would get a change to take over from MS in a quite good team later.

If one of the Renault drivers goes somewhere else next year then Briatore might want to bring a big name to Renault. And JV has proven to be able to win something that DC hasn't.

Wasn't Prost fired from Ferrari and then returned in a Williams and won the title?

[freud]

Originally posted by ralf fan
JV in F1? no-way!! or at least not in a top team.... i mean seriously we have young guns like Kimi,FA,Webber,JB (who beat JV convincingly) do we really need JV? he had his time,a WDC and some good wins... its time now for the young guns to shine!!!

What ...

Why does the ultimate young gun-blocker aka TGF doesnt get a mention here?? I mean JV is 3 years younger than TGF.. get my point!

[Kirk]

And the truth is these young guns, with the exception of maybe Kimi are easily intimidated merely by Schumi's presence. Say what you will about JV, but even last year Schumi had his hands full the few times (twice that I recall) that he had to overtake JV for position.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by Kirk
And the truth is these young guns, with the exception of maybe Kimi are easily intimidated merely by Schumi's presence.

Don't think i'd put JPM or Fernando in the intimidated by michael catagory

Originally posted by Kirk

Say what you will about JV, but even last year Schumi had his hands full the few times (twice that I recall) that he had to overtake JV for position.

I still find it hard to believe that given the equipment, Michael found himself so far down the grid!

[Kirk]

Alonso, maybe so. I liked the way he handled Schumi forcing him off the track last year. As for JPM, what is he 29, not a young gun anymore although he still lacks maturity.

[TeddyG]

Originally posted by daniel27
JV inflames passions in this community, it surely can't be bad to have a driver like that on the grid!!, maybe we should wait until there is any evidence of a JV comeback or an official retirement announcement.

Closing the thread down only encourages these people to continue in such a manner. In short you are not addressing the issue.

I repeat that we should probably let this topic lie until we have some real news about JV and his future.

I agree fully with Daniel27 here....perhaps it is a little to soon to be discussing the 2005 silly season since the 2004 season has just begun. However I do hope that the moderators of this forum will respect the rights of all forum members to discuss any driver they see fit. I suspect this will not be the LAST VILLENUEVE thread as the moderators have named it, the true last JV thread should be the last one that the forum members decide is the last one, not imposed upon them by a very small minority of the ten-tenths community.

[TeddyG]

Originally posted by Kirk
TG: I for one applaud you for standing up. I felt the same way when the last JV thread was abruptly closed (again).

Thanks Kirk you have no idea how much that means to me. Sometimes the lowly members of the forum have to get together and state their opinion against the all-mighty moderators. In general I feel they do a great job around here and I have to admit the JV issue must be hard for them to deal with, however people should still be allowed to voice their opinion on the matter.
But as I said before maybe it is a tad too early to be discussing the 2005 season, I am willing to wait it out but I just hope that when the time comes that future Villenueve threads will be given the respect that they deserve.

[hamsmith]

it doesn't matter which forum i visit as soon as someone mentions Villeneuve everyone starts bashing him. people even log on to the jv forum to start arguments. can we not have a thread where people who are genuinly interested in the future of jv can have an unheated discussion?
TG i would like to think Renault will snap him up for 05 because he already made him an offer in 2001 i think but regardless of what other people think jv wanted to see through the developments at bar. he wantet to honner is commitment to the team. sadly whatever whinging he did during the 03 season (and to be fair he did do a bit of that) Dave Richards acted really unprofesional the way he kept jv hanging on till the last race before telling him no thanks. I have an interview with Sato at the end of the 02 season where he is asked was he disapointed that after a year of racing he will be only testing for the next season, he replied something like it's only for one season as i will be driving for the team in 04. i can fully understand why jv feels let down. however, if someone is interested in signing him for next season why hasn't he at least been offered a testing role for this year?

[TeddyG]

Originally posted by 006_007
Not trying to pick a fight with a moderator here (especially as it is my first day on this board....) But I can honestly say I do not see the "garbage" in this thread that you are referring to.

I have had the misfortune to belong to several other bulletin boards where the vast majority of the posts were true garbage, and while browsing your forums here I have not witnessed that yet. I will keep searching.

My sentiments exactly 006 (you might want to pay attention to this Wrex)

I don't mean to pick a fight either, the moderators have a tough job but soemtimes I feel they cross the line, especially when it comes to JV. However as I said it is a passionate topic and people tend to get carried away. I just hope no driver shall ever be off limits in the ten-tenths forum, I hold too much respect for this place for it to de dragged down that road.

[Redblurr]

The thing is you JV fans never say anything! All you talk about is the prospect of discussing JV. Come on then get on with it - this is so boring.

[Super Tourer]

Originally posted by hamsmith
it doesn't matter which forum i visit as soon as someone mentions Villeneuve everyone starts bashing him. people even log on to the jv forum to start arguments. can we not have a thread where people who are genuinly interested in the future of jv can have an unheated discussion?

There is nothing we would like more, but in our experience it's impossible.......

It's easy to be critical of the mods (thanks guys...) but on this topic we cannot do right for doing wrong.

I concurr with the earlier poster, why not leave discussion on JV until there is something new to say about his future and leave the old trampled ground to recover....

If we 'cross the line' over JV, it's because we are pushed IMO. No driver is off limits for civilised discussion.

ST

[Mr V]

Originally posted by TeddyG
However as I said it is a passionate topic and people tend to get carried away.

The trouble is, and this will always lead to a "debate".

Jacques fans rank amongst some of the most passionate in F1. (or out of F1 as it is at the moment). And they refuse to see that their man could possibly be beaten by anyone.

I don't want this to sound as a bash, as thats not my intention. Last year, sure, Villeneuve had more reliability issues, but he wasn't over by Dave Richards. Sometimes, JV out-performed Button, other times Button out-performed JV. However, we never saw recognition for Buttons performances last year, just that JV was over.

Let me ask you this, and answer me honestly.

As Dave Richards is only an employee with BAR (albeit a high ranking employee), do you honestly believe that he would ruin his own prospects of further employment with the team just to "sabotage" JV, when he could (and as we saw, did) get rid of him at the end of the season?

Do you think he would want to lose possible points to rival teams, due to some sort of vendetta?