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Old 13 Jun 2006, 23:40 (Ref:1633916)   #1
JAG
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LMP2 engine changes? (merged)

Just watched an interview with Daniel Poissenot (sp) of the ACO and he was hinting there could be some changes to LMP2 engine specs to improve reliabilty for privateers.

He talked about possibly reducing power slighlty and introducing 'series line' engines.

I presusme by this he means 'production' based engines, possibly GT2 type spec, 500bhp?

Wonder how an RSR engines stacks up against a Judd or AER, price wise?
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Old 14 Jun 2006, 00:42 (Ref:1633946)   #2
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Just read basically the same thing on DSC. I am sure he doesn't want a Porsche RSR in the mix since everyone is now up in arms about the Porsche's in ALMS. I think intead looking for others from Japan or Europe, but I wonder how much capacity you have to give a 'stock block' to compete against the race engines? Unless you give them capacity and hold back on restrictors you are going to have some very expensive engines or gernades-or both.

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Old 14 Jun 2006, 01:08 (Ref:1633957)   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAG
Just watched an interview with Daniel Poissenot (sp) of the ACO and he was hinting there could be some changes to LMP2 engine specs to improve reliabilty for privateers.

I'm a little confused about the reasoning...to improve reliability? Wasn't aware there was a reliability issue with LMP2 engines. Now I know there is an issue with the power-to-weight ratio LMP1 vs. LMP2....

775kgs @ 550 hp = 1.409 kgs/hp

vs.

925 kgs @ 650 hp = 1.42 kgs/hp

Is that the ACO's way of describing the above? LMP2s need more reliability?
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Old 14 Jun 2006, 01:21 (Ref:1633961)   #4
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A couple of thoughts.

Are homologated engines a weight penalty over their pure racing counterparts? Perhaps this is partially a methodology to allow an interested party into the mix???

Add weight to all of the cars, then the Homologated engine has a place.

I am also confused about the engine reliability issue. It really is the other parts, which perhaps may have been slightly compromised by needing to get down to weight. Perhaps an increase in weight will allow for the build of more "sturdy" parts, in addition to addressing the LMP1 vs. LMP2 power to weight issue.
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Old 14 Jun 2006, 01:36 (Ref:1633965)   #5
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From what I've heard, there is a weight increase coming for LMP2. That would jive much better if homologated engine are being considered as they have a considerable weight disadvantage over purpose built racing engines. Sounds like Daniel Poissenot is prepping everyone for the weight increase. Just wish they wouldn't skirt around the issue...
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Old 14 Jun 2006, 10:20 (Ref:1634182)   #6
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If you take this
Quote:
775kgs @ 550 hp = 1.409 kgs/hp

vs.

925 kgs @ 650 hp = 1.42 kgs/hp
and calculate the power divided by the max. engine size:

550hp/3400 ccm = 0,16hp/ccm
650hp/6000 ccm = 0,10hp/ccm

you see that a LMP2 engine has more power per ccm. So its more a racing engine and thats makes them less reliability. Of couse most LMP1 engines are smaller in reality.
Think 800kg and 450hp with an mim. weight for the engine and an standard space which must be in every chassis to enable them for different engines would be good.
Thats why the Porsche is so fast, the chassis is build completly for one engine. Others like Lola and Courage have to be more flexibel and can not optimize there chassis in the same way. Look the back of the Porsche chassis ....
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Old 14 Jun 2006, 11:09 (Ref:1634204)   #7
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Hmmmm....

Question:

How many teams or builders thus far have explored the option of running a GT2 homologated normally aspirated engine up to 4.0 L that is currently allowed within the LMP2 regs????

Answer:

Zero

I agree with all who have said that there will probably be a weight increase, but this "stock block" bit will see the same number of teams or builders participating in it as the GT2 engine option did....
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Old 14 Jun 2006, 12:50 (Ref:1634281)   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ger80
If you ... calculate the power divided by the max. engine size you see that a LMP2 engine has more power per ccm. So its more a racing engine and thats makes them less reliability.
Less reliability - the proof is in the pudding, so they say. How many LMP2 engine failures have we seen in the last year? I can't think of any...
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Old 14 Jun 2006, 13:03 (Ref:1634293)   #9
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Originally Posted by paul-collins
Less reliability - the proof is in the pudding, so they say. How many LMP2 engine failures have we seen in the last year? I can't think of any...
I'll give you a hint. Zoom Zoom.
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Old 14 Jun 2006, 14:26 (Ref:1634356)   #10
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mazda?
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Old 14 Jun 2006, 14:34 (Ref:1634365)   #11
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Intersport's AER at Road America?
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Old 14 Jun 2006, 14:38 (Ref:1634367)   #12
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Originally Posted by Erki
Intersport's AER at Road America?
Gearbox Failure, causing a fire. Not an engine failure.
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Old 14 Jun 2006, 15:59 (Ref:1634407)   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MulsanneMike
I'm a little confused about the reasoning...to improve reliability? Wasn't aware there was a reliability issue with LMP2 engines. Now I know there is an issue with the power-to-weight ratio LMP1 vs. LMP2....

775kgs @ 550 hp = 1.409 kgs/hp

vs.

925 kgs @ 650 hp = 1.42 kgs/hp

Is that the ACO's way of describing the above? LMP2s need more reliability?

He distinctly said the chassis are fine, reliability wise, the problems are with the engines (maybe he meant the whole engine/gearbox package and the stresses being put on them?).

He went onto talk about the 'series line' engines being introduced.

I'm guessing they'll increase weight to 800kg, reduce power to 500bhp (current Judds, AER etc.) and encourage off the shelf production based engines from GT2.

Who knows, they may even follow Grand Am and homologate individual engines so the likes of the Panoz V8 could be used, bypassing the current 4l limit for GT2 engines.

I cannot emphasise enough how he insisted LMP2 was for privateers, leaving the big boys to LMP1. When asked about the Penske RS Spyder, he replied it would be better to see privateer versions at Le Mans.

Last edited by JAG; 14 Jun 2006 at 16:05.
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Old 15 Jun 2006, 12:38 (Ref:1635021)   #14
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Any comments from the ACO on changes to the wheel/tyre differences too?
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Old 15 Jun 2006, 14:38 (Ref:1635095)   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Northcutt
Hmmmm....

Question:

How many teams or builders thus far have explored the option of running a GT2 homologated normally aspirated engine up to 4.0 L that is currently allowed within the LMP2 regs????

Answer:

Zero
Is it because of in modern LMPs the engine is part of a load bearing structure and GT engines are less suited for such installation?
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