Delta Wing Discussion ONLY

[deltawing]

Originally Posted by Disraeli Eers

Here's a video of some improvements made for this season's car

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-ov_...em-uploademail

Here is the best video answer i could find to the video you posted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLDgQg6bq7o

(please don't take this personal! Trust me, this has nothing to do with you! )

[rich07]

Originally Posted by wnut

Go to 2:41, pause, blow up the picture to large, and look at the standard of the welding on the tube intersections! Looks like a pigeon did it! Simply unbelievable on a racing car.

Doesn't look like a pigeon weld there, I'd associate that welding quality with a crow

[Richard C]

It reminds me of the quality of the welding on the Porsche 917. Functional, but not something you want to show your welding instructor!

Richard

[Maelochs]

Fact is, the DWing seemed to have better reliability but not great pace at the Roar. Of course, Muscle Milk wasn't that quick either---in a car they had never seen three weeks ago.

I like the DWing, but based on the numbers that count--lap times and speed--the car isn't back up to par yet.

On the other hand at 1:40.508, it isn't That far off the pace--only about Two Seconds slower than the ActEx #5, 12th out of 15 Prototypes--beating Muscle Milk (new car,) Marsh (new car,) and Highway to Help (year-old car, an entry only there to fight Alzheimers and have fun.)

I am sure there are some tractor-pull tractors with amazing power/weight ratios too. I doubt a tractor even with 2000 bhp/ton would lap Daytona very quickly.

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by deltawing

What are the improvements?

That roof certainly looks fugly ..... to be honest ..... It disgusts me .....

[wdave0]

Originally Posted by rich07

Doesn't look like a pigeon weld there, I'd associate that welding quality with a crow

You might say the welder was winging it but then the whole Delta Wing operation runs on a wing and a prayer.

[Canada ALMS fan]

Originally Posted by The Badger

That roof certainly looks fugly ..... to be honest ..... It disgusts me .....

Agreed. I hate to admit it but the spyder version they ran in early 2013 was growing on me looks-wise. This is just hideous, at least the Nissan one is visually proportional.

[deltawing]

Originally Posted by The Badger

That roof certainly looks fugly ..... to be honest ..... It disgusts me .....

In racing ugliness would be easily accepted IF it translates into lower lap times - agree? The trouble is when something gets uglier AND performs worse, then you wonder why....

But anyway, I am sure the poster meant improvements in terms of performance improvements, which I am having hard time seeing as the aero parts seem the same from 2012.

[miatanut]

Originally Posted by deltawing

In racing ugliness would be easily accepted IF it translates into lower lap times - agree?

A perfect description of the Chaparrals!

[HJJ]

Originally Posted by wnut

Go to 2:41, pause, blow up the picture to large, and look at the standard of the welding on the tube intersections! Looks like a pigeon did it! Simply unbelievable on a racing car.

The welds that you are talking about are on the subframe used to lift the car in the paddock/garage.

[deltawing]

HJJ - you seem very familiar with the car. If you watch the video again, at exactly 1:11 he points at a "chin", right in between (and in front) of the vortex generators. If you have seen it in person, can you tell if the chin is completely flat and flush with the underbody of the tub, or does the chin actually sits at an angle, where the front edge is lower than the underbody?

[brandscooper]

You're not looking at anything! The front bodywork is not on the car. This area is all enclosed by the bodywork.

[deltawing]

Originally Posted by brandscooper

You're not looking at anything! The front bodywork is not on the car. This area is all enclosed by the bodywork.

Are you saying that the guy doing the walk-around is talking BS, because that is not a chin, but just flush piece with the missing cover?

[brandscooper]

Originally Posted by deltawing

Are you saying that the guy doing the walk-around is talking BS, because that is not a chin, but just flush piece with the missing cover?

Yes. You got it.

[joeb]

I'm confused by the last question and answer in this interview
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...E%7Cp#comments

[Maelochs]

Seems Panoz is designing a couple low-budget passenger cars to produce in partnership with a major manufacturer (which some manufacturers would like, because it lowers corporate average fuel economy) which will give hem access to the internals to eventually build a GT version, which likely would be aimed also at GT racing. That's how I read it.

EDIT: Early in the article it says “Panoz says his radical design could transform more than just America's most prestigious endurance race — it could transform the production car. He met with major automakers here about a partnership for a fuel-efficient sedan or sports car.”

Whether he is planning a four-seat DWing or whatever … imagine the patent wars with Nissan then—he is apparently looking to build a low-drag road car with the assistance of some manufacturer (other than Nisssan.)

I’d guess that like Nissan’s road-going trike-car concept, the Panoz version would be odd-looking and awkward for driver-passenger socializing (great to make a date sit in the back seat, eh?) and claim to be more efficient with its skinny front wheels—and if licensed to a Detroit manufacturer, would use styling cues from other cars by that manufacturer. Panoz would get his cut for the basic idea, and the car would sell as much on novelty as practicality.

That’s what it sounds like to me.

Then, I guess, he would build a DWing GT … who knows? Let’s see what the courts say.

[miatanut]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

I’d guess that like Nissan’s road-going trike-car concept, the Panoz version would be odd-looking and awkward for driver-passenger socializing (great to make a date sit in the back seat, eh?) and claim to be more efficient with its skinny front wheels—and if licensed to a Detroit manufacturer, would use styling cues from other cars by that manufacturer. Panoz would get his cut for the basic idea, and the car would sell as much on novelty as practicality.

120 MPG (diesel) with two across seating. Available now.

Tandem seating would provide the ultimate mileage, but it's still possible to do a lot better than most cars on the road now with two across.

[miatanut]

According to Wiki, the Messerschmitt KR200 achieved 87 MPG with tandem seating and 1950's powertrain technology.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_KR200

[David Land]

Here is some video of the DeltaWing I shot at Petit, hope it makes some of you forget the snow, enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIRM3VNBoZo

[Machin]

It is worth noting that IMSA has released BOP figures for the Deltawing and they are slightly different than those published on the team's own website:-

http://www.imsa.com/sites/default/fi...20%2314-24.pdf

• Minimum weight is stated as 515kg (team site says 490kg, that's up 5%).
• Maximum fuel capacity is stated as 48 litres (the team site now says 45 litres, but not so long ago it was 40 litres, that's up 20% overall).

[Machin]

And now www.sportscar365.com are reporting a further fuel capacity increase, just before the start of Daytona:-

***The DeltaWing has been given a five-liter increase in fuel capacity, boosting the Prototype contender to 53 liters. That compares to the gasoline-powered P2 cars’ 72 liters and DPs’ 76 liters for the season-opener.

Will be interesting to see how many laps they do compared to the P2's and DP's... will they use the extra fuel to do more laps or go faster for the same number of laps?

[TME45]

Originally Posted by Machin

And now www.sportscar365.com are reporting a further fuel capacity increase, just before the start of Daytona:-



Will be interesting to see how many laps they do compared to the P2's and DP's... will they use the extra fuel to do more laps or go faster for the same number of laps?

but they need a smaller fill fuel hole to cancel the advantage of small fuel tank fill time

[Machin]

It is a little while now since Daytona... but I've done a little bit of analysis:-

The chart below has been created from the following:

• I have taken each class winner's best stint in terms of average speed.
• I have assumed that all cars started the stint with a full fuel tank and all cars finished with 1 litre remaining, and divided the difference by the stint length to get the fuel consumption rate.
• The average lap speed does not include the first or last laps of the stint.
• No stint includes any yellow flag cautions (i.e green flag laps only).
• The dotted line is a simple square law based on the relationship KE=1/2.m.v^2, and is just there for reference.

[TME45]

Originally Posted by Machin

It is a little while now since Daytona... but I've done a little bit of analysis:-

The chart below has been created from the following:

• I have taken each class winner's best stint in terms of average speed.
• I have assumed that all cars started the stint with a full fuel tank and all cars finished with 1 litre remaining, and divided the difference by the stint length to get the fuel consumption rate.
• The average lap speed does not include the first or last laps of the stint.
• No stint includes any yellow flag cautions (i.e green flag laps only).
• The dotted line is a simple square law based on the relationship KE=1/2.m.v^2, and is just there for reference.

I think there are nothing to compare as they were balanced.

[TF110]

Serious question, when was the last time this car finished a race? And when it did finish, how many laps (time) was it down? It seems like a wasted effort if every race it fails to finish. Imo, Panoz should just invest in a regular DP car engine package.