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Old 11 Feb 2013, 03:14 (Ref:3202685)   #1301
Vanishing Point
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Western Springs Commentary.. yep I agree with On_to_it

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Old 11 Feb 2013, 05:25 (Ref:3202707)   #1302
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We seem to have gotten off topic here, I am interested to hear some reaction to comments made in public by an MSNZ official that they were going to "destroy SuperTourers" - that is an absolute disgrace and needs to be called to account. The person who said that has been known to post on this site. I want to know why they would say such a thing. Wonder if he/she will have the balls to front up? You know who you are.
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Old 11 Feb 2013, 05:33 (Ref:3202708)   #1303
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What do you think GB?

I'd love to see them try and 'destroy' supertourers. It just won't happen.

As usual, its all talk.

All of this bad publicity (CRC show, Murphs vent on speedcafe and NZ Herald) is reaching a huge audience who just want to watch cool cars with big grids and household name drivers, either at the track or with a few beers come sunday.

They will either have to re-invent themselves quick smart, or the public, clubs, sponsors etc just wont have a bar of it.

They have a lot of work to do to get some credibility back thats for sure.
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Old 11 Feb 2013, 06:21 (Ref:3202723)   #1304
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Originally Posted by Goat Boy View Post
We seem to have gotten off topic here, I am interested to hear some reaction to comments made in public by an MSNZ official that they were going to "destroy SuperTourers" - that is an absolute disgrace and needs to be called to account. The person who said that has been known to post on this site. I want to know why they would say such a thing. Wonder if he/she will have the balls to front up? You know who you are.
Who was it? And where were the comments? ie does public mean in a speech? in print? or overheard by a mates brothers cousin in a pub up north?
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Old 11 Feb 2013, 06:41 (Ref:3202726)   #1305
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Who was it? And where were the comments? ie does public mean in a speech? in print? or overheard by a mates brothers cousin in a pub up north?
I can answer all of those and I assure you it is rock-solid, Rev, oops I mean Warwick, I mean Richard. However at the moment I am not going to publicly divulge that information, but Shane Drake, Shaun and several others all know the details.
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Old 11 Feb 2013, 06:46 (Ref:3202729)   #1306
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You sure are a confused goat.

I only ask out of genuine interest as if it's true it's pretty bloody unprofessional.
But before forming an opinion you kinda need to know all the facts such as those I asked.
Without those facts it can look like yet another made up piece of disinformation. I hope the public is being told of all the facts and their sources.
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Old 11 Feb 2013, 06:57 (Ref:3202732)   #1307
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Originally Posted by Goat Boy View Post
We seem to have gotten off topic here, I am interested to hear some reaction to comments made in public by an MSNZ official that they were going to "destroy SuperTourers" - that is an absolute disgrace and needs to be called to account. The person who said that has been known to post on this site. I want to know why they would say such a thing. Wonder if he/she will have the balls to front up? You know who you are.
If the above comments by a MSNZ official are true then that official should immediately relinquish his post in MSNZ as he is clearly acting contrary to MSNZ's Constitution which states that MSNZ is required to : "encourage participation ... (in) ... the various sports involving automobiles with four or more wheels ("automobile sport")".

MSNZ is required to be non-partisan and "destroying" a component of the sport does not constitute an encouragement of participation in motor sport.
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Old 11 Feb 2013, 06:58 (Ref:3202733)   #1308
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Who was it? And where were the comments? ie does public mean in a speech? in print? or overheard by a mates brothers cousin in a pub up north?
Ok... I reckon Shane Harris or Brian Bud.. My money is on the latter. C'mon Drakie who was it? If it is true and they work for MSNZ they should be fired..
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Old 11 Feb 2013, 07:01 (Ref:3202734)   #1309
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interesting that this was not posted here , or if it was, i missed it amongst all manner of other potings

http://www.onlinemotorsport.net/foru...id=1&mid=40044

more interesting, is whether all clubs advised their membership of this ??
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Old 11 Feb 2013, 07:02 (Ref:3202736)   #1310
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whether all clubs advised their membership of this ??
That would be up to each car club, I know mine did.
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Old 11 Feb 2013, 07:07 (Ref:3202737)   #1311
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You sure are a confused goat.

I only ask out of genuine interest as if it's true it's pretty bloody unprofessional.
But before forming an opinion you kinda need to know all the facts such as those I asked.
Without those facts it can look like yet another made up piece of disinformation. I hope the public is being told of all the facts and their sources.
The 'general' public are getting their info from the media, which at the moment is painting a very bad picture of MSNZ and the sport in general.

I'd like to ask you some questions if you dont mind SB.

What are your thoughts on all of this? Do you think that ST's have single handedly ruined the sport in this country, or do you think they have done some good?

On top of that what is your relationship with MSNZ (i'm not trying to start an argument, just trying to see where your coming from)? are you part of the organisation or someone that has worked in and around them?

I dont need to know who you are, frankly i dont care. But i am intrigued as to why you are so obtuse when it comes to these matters.

For the record, I am not part of a club, circuit, category or anything. I am simply a motorsport fan, but one that wants to know why a category such as the ST's gets so far with MSNZ (and things get agreed in principle) and then to have to pin pulled. I am a business man at the end of day so am interested in profit and a ROI. The model that ST has developed, from a business point of view, seems to satisfy the criteria that anyone with business brains would be happy with. E.g. big grids of well known drivers, innovative and future proofed design in the cars, professional looking teams, big name sponsors on board, an executive structure that works well, and communicates with the media well.

Last but not least, what would be your preffered outcome to all of this? For the ST's to die away and be replaced with a field full of TLX's?

Honest questions, so honest answers would be appreciated.

Thanks
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Old 11 Feb 2013, 07:23 (Ref:3202744)   #1312
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Yes it is painting a bad picture. But is all of it true? I'm not sure it is.

No I don't think the Supertourers have singlehandedly ruined motorsport. But I also don't think the good is as good as some claim from what I have read on here.

MSNZ? No relationship at all. To the best of my knowledge I don't know anyone involved with them above car club membership/event running (marshalls etc) level. I once stopped to look at the car they had in the window in Wellington though.


Quote:
but one that wants to know why a category such as the ST's gets so far with MSNZ (and things get agreed in principle) and then to have to pin pulled
See but that's one of the things I don't think is accurate and is being reported as being accurate in the media. All I saw is comments about them looknig into something, was there an agreement signed or anything? Did anyone say "yes we will let you come to the V8s for sure"?
I asked earlier in the thread where this document saying that was and since then no one has produced anything.

One thing to consider, are all those involved in the Supertourers squeaky clean? Is it all entirely one sided? Reading a few of the threads on here there is some seriouly funny stuff happening in the Supertourers.

My preffered outcome? **** I dunno how you'd sort this mess. But after seeing both types of cars run, I know which one is more fun to watch.
I genuinly got a bigger buzz from 3 TLX cars in one race than I did from the entire Supertourer field playing follow the leader a car length apart for a weekend.


I guess I'm just someone who doesn't beleive everything posted on an internet forum
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Old 11 Feb 2013, 07:32 (Ref:3202746)   #1313
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ok, thanks for your honest reply Brick, i appreciate it.

I think in all forms of motorsport there will be some degree of lack of transparency, something which i think could be improved across the board.

I do however find it intriguing that you would prefer to watch 3 TLX cars than 20 or so ST's, but hey, its horses for courses.

I also think that if you have watched an ST race it isn't really follow the leader. Sure, some teams seemed to have nailed the formula better than others, but there is lots of passing and close racing - the Puke round springs to mind.

But either way, i think i know where you sit in all of this.

Thanks
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Old 11 Feb 2013, 07:52 (Ref:3202757)   #1314
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I put it on mute. Gives you a screaming headache otherwise. Terrible commentating - and it has been raised on here before. I'd rather listen to Jamie McCarthy and Phil Dark doing the boats - and I am not at all interested in the boats.
Off topic so I will keep it brief.

Socram & others, thanks for your feedback on the Race Commentary for the International Midget Car Series on CRC Motorsport last Sunday. I am currently working with the Promoters and Production Company to resolve this. I agree it needs improving and I can assure you it will be... not over night but it will be.

Thanks for watching CRC Motorsport.

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Old 11 Feb 2013, 08:35 (Ref:3202773)   #1315
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The 'general' public are getting their info from the media, which at the moment is painting a very bad picture of MSNZ and the sport in general.
yes the current picture being painted is not good. but myself, and SBrick, plus a few others, also know the press is diigging deep into one side of the matter and getting a veiwpoint predominantly form either ST teams or drivers. as most of this information is unfounded (unless emails/ documents are produced), i remain impartial, but would appreciate FACTS. if some of these claims are true, then MSNZ's code of silence and conduct leaves a lot to be desired, and appropriate action needs to be taken



as i have been grouped previously, i'll have a stab:
Quote:
Originally Posted by NZSTfan View Post
What are your thoughts on all of this? Do you think that ST's have single handedly ruined the sport in this country, or do you think they have done some good?
NZST havn't so much as ruined the sport, but many involved were party to the ruination of top level car racing in NZ that has been ongoing for 10-ish years. many of these teams have been around long enough to know what works, but some of the same people are doing the same actions to bring their sport down again.

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On top of that what is your relationship with MSNZ (i'm not trying to start an argument, just trying to see where your coming from)? are you part of the organisation or someone that has worked in and around them?
former marshall/ CotC/ scrutineer/ spectator. very rarely competitor (not circuit). 20+years involvment


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Last but not least, what would be your preffered outcome to all of this? For the ST's to die away and be replaced with a field full of TLX's?

Honest questions, so honest answers would be appreciated.

Thanks
personally, would like to see either:
ST reduce their ego and cubes and go back to 5.0l formula (as this could have some bearing on strained relationship with AV8SC ?) and allow TLX 5.0l car to run with them for a decent grid of 30+ cars

or
status quo big motors on their own and
20+ TLX cars on their own
and let the public decide fairly.

can fully appreciate that NZST have grown the way they have. a decent advertising campaign will do that, and that is one this MSNZ/TMC et al have failed on in the last 5-6 years to do.
for the first three rounds, i honestly thought the racing was crap and processional, but once a few engineers got their head around the cars, some decent racing ensued.
the constant rule bending and changing is not a good look, and neither is sniping to the press about track safety when JMac's car was clearly at fault.

MSNZ have failed miserably with TLX, even though i prefer the make-up of the class. this , in no way does this reflect on Mitchells for their involvement, but unfortunately, it dosn't look like it will get to required numbers to create a decent series (even though rumours of a group buy have been mentioned), to re-invigorate the paying public.
i love the new car, but i ain't paying to see 3 of them.

guys, lay some cards on the table, would love to he who is at fault in ALL sides of this fiasco.

Last edited by smokin'joe; 11 Feb 2013 at 08:44. Reason: missed a bit.
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Old 11 Feb 2013, 08:54 (Ref:3202785)   #1316
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Originally Posted by smokin'joe View Post
yes the current picture being painted is not good. but myself, and SBrick, plus a few others, also know the press is diigging deep into one side of the matter and getting a veiwpoint predominantly form either ST teams or drivers. as most of this information is unfounded (unless emails/ documents are produced), i remain impartial, but would appreciate FACTS. if some of these claims are true, then MSNZ's code of silence and conduct leaves a lot to be desired, and appropriate action needs to be taken



as i have been grouped previously, i'll have a stab:
NZST havn't so much as ruined the sport, but many involved were party to the ruination of top level car racing in NZ that has been ongoing for 10-ish years. many of these teams have been around long enough to know what works, but some of the same people are doing the same actions to bring their sport down again.

former marshall/ CotC/ scrutineer/ spectator. very rarely competitor (not circuit). 20+years involvment



personally, would like to see either:
ST reduce their ego and cubes and go back to 5.0l formula (as this could have some bearing on strained relationship with AV8SC ?) and allow TLX 5.0l car to run with them for a decent grid of 30+ cars

or
status quo big motors on their own and
20+ TLX cars on their own
and let the public decide fairly.

can fully appreciate that NZST have grown the way they have. a decent advertising campaign will do that, and that is one this MSNZ/TMC et al have failed on in the last 5-6 years to do.
for the first three rounds, i honestly thought the racing was crap and processional, but once a few engineers got their head around the cars, some decent racing ensued.
the constant rule bending and changing is not a good look, and neither is sniping to the press about track safety when JMac's car was clearly at fault.

MSNZ have failed miserably with TLX, even though i prefer the make-up of the class. this , in no way does this reflect on Mitchells for their involvement, but unfortunately, it dosn't look like it will get to required numbers to create a decent series (even though rumours of a group buy have been mentioned), to re-invigorate the paying public.
i love the new car, but i ain't paying to see 3 of them.

guys, lay some cards on the table, would love to he who is at fault in ALL sides of this fiasco.
Round 1 Race 3 was pretty good. 20 TLX cars Joe, come on mate. I better buy one then. and who are going to be driving the twenty cars? anyone we know. Pipe dreams.
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Old 11 Feb 2013, 09:04 (Ref:3202793)   #1317
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interesting that this was not posted here , or if it was, i missed it amongst all manner of other potings

http://www.onlinemotorsport.net/foru...id=1&mid=40044

more interesting, is whether all clubs advised their membership of this ??
When Jan 25th was first proposed by MNZ, they were quickly reminded it clashed with one of their own events (TRS Round 3 @ Taupo) but also the second weekend of probably the largest motorsport event this summer - the Denny Hulme Festival at Hampton Downs. Doh!

At that time, it was also suggested that all/some of the review panel could benefit by getting out to the regions and having the feedback sessions at several venues around the country. Surely, they would get far more valuable input by being accessible to more of the clubs.

I don't believe this request even received a reply, and it would appear that the single date, single venue session announced last Friday is the best way of ensuring low feedback.
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Old 11 Feb 2013, 09:05 (Ref:3202794)   #1318
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Round 1 Race 3 was pretty good.
was that the one where Scott did the heavy brake check on Murf off the start ?
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20 TLX cars Joe, come on mate. I better buy one then. and who are going to be driving the twenty cars? anyone we know. Pipe dreams.
NZSTFan wanted honest answers to honest questions. have heard whispers but whether anything comes into fruition is another thing.

care to enlighten us on the gearbox issues,yet ?? or is it still a linkage issue in one car re-occurring??
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Old 11 Feb 2013, 20:48 (Ref:3203074)   #1319
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Sorry to appear dim, but if all cars are equal, isn't processional racing the most likely outcome? Driver ability is so close that unless there is a bit of 'love tapping' going on (which I abhor - this is not stock cars) or mistakes, then overtaking opportunities are slim.

If it is inevitable (which I believe it is) I'd far rather see two or three classes making a decent sized grid, then at least when the first group covering about 5 seconds have passsed, there might well be something else to watch for the next 40 seconds rather than empty tar seal.

When it comes to MSNZ talking to the daily racers, only Crunch appears to have volunteered to do this, but unless you knew Crunch, you may not have known he was around. At least he listens, but has to then weigh up the demands of a very (large) diverse group of competitors - and opinions do vary considerably.

MSNZ is effectively a clubs only organisation, with individuals generally having very little input, but as Crunch found out when we had a well attended drivers meeting in Auckland a few seasons ago, the drivers need an opprtunity to voice their concerns, opinions and feelings, preferably away from the track, where most are busy, or at the end of the day, are packing up for the journey home.

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Old 11 Feb 2013, 21:44 (Ref:3203094)   #1320
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Originally Posted by RogerH View Post
If the above comments by a MSNZ official are true then that official should immediately relinquish his post in MSNZ as he is clearly acting contrary to MSNZ's Constitution which states that MSNZ is required to : "encourage participation ... (in) ... the various sports involving automobiles with four or more wheels ("automobile sport")".

MSNZ is required to be non-partisan and "destroying" a component of the sport does not constitute an encouragement of participation in motor sport.
Roger, I absolutely agree with your comments.

Whilst much of the negativisms and criticisms on this forum are utter BS, this is a particularly concerning accusation.
No one involved in the administration of motorsport in this country, be they an executive member or a paid employee, have any business harbouring any such attitude or intent.
If the accusation is true, that person ought step down immediately, or be dismissed.
The longer this goes on unsubstantiated, it can only cast aspersions on those in the organisation actually working for the good of the sport.
Perhaps the accusers need to 'put up or shut up'.

The other alarming aspect from this thread is Crunch's continued assertions of reprimand or sanction for speaking out.
Crunch, you are the sport's Senior Vice President. No one has the authority to muzzle you. Time to grow some testicles and start serving the purpose for which you were elected.
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Old 11 Feb 2013, 22:53 (Ref:3203140)   #1321
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The other alarming aspect from this thread is Crunch's continued assertions of reprimand or sanction for speaking out.
Crunch, you are the sport's Senior Vice President. No one has the authority to muzzle you. Time to grow some testicles and start serving the purpose for which you were elected.
Bruce; you have no idea what happens at the Executive level; so maybe you should keep your comments to what you know factually. There is authority for this to happen.
Once again; you take another opportunity to have a personal dig at me.

Leave that to personal emails or phone calls; your airing of the personality diffuculties you have with me, on a forum that is just wanting to find more faults with the management of the sport; does not help.

Bruce; you want the job of Vice-President, May is just around the corner, take your opportunity (again).
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Old 11 Feb 2013, 23:04 (Ref:3203148)   #1322
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Originally Posted by RogerH View Post
If the above comments by a MSNZ official are true then that official should immediately relinquish his post in MSNZ as he is clearly acting contrary to MSNZ's Constitution which states that MSNZ is required to : "encourage participation ... (in) ... the various sports involving automobiles with four or more wheels ("automobile sport")".

MSNZ is required to be non-partisan and "destroying" a component of the sport does not constitute an encouragement of participation in motor sport.

Chuck into the mix here a threatening phone call made over the weekend to one of the V8ST drivers by Brian Budd. Fact. Nice bunch governing our sport.
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Old 11 Feb 2013, 23:11 (Ref:3203153)   #1323
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Originally Posted by RogerH View Post
If the above comments by a MSNZ official are true then that official should immediately relinquish his post in MSNZ as he is clearly acting contrary to MSNZ's Constitution which states that MSNZ is required to : "encourage participation ... (in) ... the various sports involving automobiles with four or more wheels ("automobile sport")".

MSNZ is required to be non-partisan and "destroying" a component of the sport does not constitute an encouragement of participation in motor sport.
OK... word on the street is that the said person is Brian Budd... Shame on you Brian.. you should resign immediately...

Also here is some more damaging info... MSNZ paid for an Australian Reporter to be at Manfeild, Why?

Also is it true MSNZ tried to influence people not to work on the upcoming Supertourer Series?
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Old 11 Feb 2013, 23:21 (Ref:3203156)   #1324
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Chuck into the mix here a threatening phone call made over the weekend to one of the V8ST drivers by Brian Budd. Fact. Nice bunch governing our sport.

I guess he wasn't threatening to resign then...
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Old 11 Feb 2013, 23:28 (Ref:3203158)   #1325
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Chuck into the mix here a threatening phone call made over the weekend to one of the V8ST drivers by Brian Budd. Fact. Nice bunch governing our sport.
To have it accepted as fact you need one of the following:
The driver to log in and tell the story.
The person accused to log in and admit it
Verified recording posted up

Other wise its just a claim from a dubious source
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