WEC Race 2016 FIA WEC 6 Hours of Circuit of the Americas aka Lone Star Le Mans - Page 8

chernaudi · 18 Sep 2016, 02:31 (Ref:3673440)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ephaeton

Let's blame the ACO for a formula that's been developed in concord with all the manufacturers.

Explain to me why Audi always lose out on pit stops on range. If not for the FCY falling the way it did, things would've been fine. Or if the #7 Audi was able to go a few laps further. The ACO have known about this from day one, but refuse to do anything about it.

Either give Audi and Porsche equal range, close pit road under yellow, or make Fretias less trigger happy on the FCY button.

About done with watching this series. Up until then, Audi had done everything right. I wouldn't blame then for pulling out of the WEC.

ederss7 · 18 Sep 2016, 02:32 (Ref:3673441)

#8 pitted twice, WTF?

JoestForEver · 18 Sep 2016, 02:32 (Ref:3673442)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ephaeton

Let's blame the ACO for a formula that's been developed in concord with all the manufacturers.

You may think things go like F1, but it's not. The principles were laid down three years ago and yes it was agreed by all. Nevertheless, the appendix B and EoT is ridiculous as ever since it came out in 2014, and it's the brain-child of ACO only. Only god knows how the cabinet politics played out.

Edit: I used to believe there's less politics in sportscar, but after this year's Le Man, meh..

J Jay · 18 Sep 2016, 02:33 (Ref:3673443)

Do Porsche have a new set of tyres left for the #1? Toyota should have a new set saved for the #6 from qualifying.

Ephaeton · 18 Sep 2016, 02:34 (Ref:3673444)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Explain to me why Audi always lose out on pit stops on range.

Well, because of a formula that's been developed in concord with Audi et al. Blame the makers, sure, but don't forget that Audi, among others, were on board with this. Without EOT, I suspect, we'd see Audi "racing" Rebellion & CLM only in P1. I don't like EoT as well as it stands, but where's your magic formula?

Maelochs · 18 Sep 2016, 02:34 (Ref:3673445)

Sucks hard for Audi but kind of alright for Toyota fans.

kvenom · 18 Sep 2016, 02:35 (Ref:3673446)

De Grassi is flying

ederss7 · 18 Sep 2016, 02:36 (Ref:3673448)

#8 pitted again to close a f*cking door, are you serious Audi?

kvenom · 18 Sep 2016, 02:37 (Ref:3673449)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ederss7

#8 pitted again to close a f*cking door, are you serious Audi?

They are the fastest on track by 2secs. I think the #8 is going to win.

Maelochs · 18 Sep 2016, 02:38 (Ref:3673450)

And let's remember, it was Audi, aided by Peugeot, which demanded that diesels be made the only effective motors for LMP1 .... which is why Audi was so dominant, and its only serious rival was the Peugeot diesel.

I assume Audi did it all to push clean diesel tech ... which might be a bit suspect now in light of the VW scandal ... But the only reason Audi even has a diesel ... is Audi.

Ephaeton · 18 Sep 2016, 02:39 (Ref:3673451)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maelochs

I assume Audi did it all to push clean diesel tech ... which might be a bit suspect now in light of the VW scandal ... But the only reason Audi even has a diesel ... is Audi.

Yup, the only guys stopping Audi from bringing a petrol to WEC ...is Audi.

bobec · 18 Sep 2016, 02:40 (Ref:3673452)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TF110

Bye 2nd place Audi.

Could you be any more obvious

MihokS5 · 18 Sep 2016, 02:41 (Ref:3673454)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Explain to me why Audi always lose out on pit stops on range. If not for the FCY falling the way it did, things would've been fine. Or if the #7 Audi was able to go a few laps further. The ACO have known about this from day one, but refuse to do anything about it.

Either give Audi and Porsche equal range, close pit road under yellow, or make Fretias less trigger happy on the FCY button.

About done with watching this series. Up until then, Audi had done everything right. I wouldn't blame then for pulling out of the WEC.

Agreed. I can't even watch it anymore when Audi is clearly at a disadvantage with EoT. Sure their car is fast, but without everything going perfect 110% of the time, they can lose in the blink of an eye.
They need to make the range and fueling times equal PERIOD.
I think it's time for Audi and Toyota to pull out. This is clearly Porsche's series now and who the hell wants to spend all the money traveling the globe just to deal with this?

bobec · 18 Sep 2016, 02:43 (Ref:3673455)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ephaeton

I don't like EoT as well as it stands, but where's your magic formula?

A lot could be done to make it more real and fair. We've talked a lot about it. EoT is not that bad on its own, but they way it's been for the past 3 years is the problem. Diesel really has no chance and no real, usable advantage.

Ephaeton · 18 Sep 2016, 02:43 (Ref:3673456)

In other news, the CLM still hasn't died yet. What's up with that?!

kvenom · 18 Sep 2016, 02:45 (Ref:3673459)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ephaeton

In other news, the CLM still hasn't died yet. What's up with that?!

Still time.

JoestForEver · 18 Sep 2016, 02:45 (Ref:3673461)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ephaeton

Well, because of a formula that's been developed in concord with Audi et al. Blame the makers, sure, but don't forget that Audi, among others, were on board with this. Without EOT, I suspect, we'd see Audi "racing" Rebellion & CLM only in P1. I don't like EoT as well as it stands, but where's your magic formula?

Here's a simple history lesson:
The basic spirit of 2014-beyond rules is to offer EQUAL chance for different tech roots and fuel efficiency, which is agreed by all.
Nevertheless, ACO introduced "ERS incentive" in Appendix B, designating 0.5s/lap per ERS options out of nowhere, on no ground, with no consensus whatsoever.

DO your homework first, and then we can talk.

J Jay · 18 Sep 2016, 02:46 (Ref:3673462)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ephaeton

Yup, the only guys stopping Audi from bringing a petrol to WEC ...is Audi.

And the small issue of a sister brand racing in the same series with a petrol car...

I don't want to get into the EoT discussion (because we seem to agree here), but there is more to it than Audi deciding to move to petrol on their own. I think if it was this simple, Audi would have switched to petrol already because the EoT will always incentivise (bigger) hybrids.

chernaudi · 18 Sep 2016, 02:46 (Ref:3673463)

Now the #8 Audi can only win if the #1 Porsche and #6 Toyota spin, wreck, or break.

bobec · 18 Sep 2016, 02:48 (Ref:3673466)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maelochs

And let's remember, it was Audi, aided by Peugeot, which demanded that diesels be made the only effective motors for LMP1 .... which is why Audi was so dominant, and its only serious rival was the Peugeot diesel.

I assume Audi did it all to push clean diesel tech ... which might be a bit suspect now in light of the VW scandal ... But the only reason Audi even has a diesel ... is Audi.

And with the recent reports that VAG won't be pushing diesel technology in the US anymore, it may end soon.

I'm not sure diesel was the only effective motor before. And even if hypothetically it was, now that there is EoT, why should they swing the other way? What's the reasoning for making diesel tech inferior?

Ephaeton · 18 Sep 2016, 02:48 (Ref:3673467)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoestForEver

Here's a simple history lesson:
The basic spirit of 2014-beyond rules is to offer EQUAL chance for different tech roots and fuel efficiency, which is agreed by all.
Nevertheless, ACO introduced "ERS incentive" in Appendix B, designating 0.5s/lap per ERS options out of nowhere, on no ground, with no consensus whatsoever.

DO your homework first, and then we can talk.

uh huh...

bobec · 18 Sep 2016, 02:50 (Ref:3673469)

Quote:

Originally Posted by J Jay

I think if it was this simple, Audi would have switched to petrol already because the EoT will always incentivise (bigger) hybrids.

But why should the diesel category be discouraged from having the biggest hybrid allowed? There has to be a better way to balance it out.

chernaudi · 18 Sep 2016, 02:52 (Ref:3673471)

Only shining light for Audi right now is that they've been the only one to double stint tires. That'll only work if di Grassi can cut 20-25 seconds out of Webber. I think that second might be the best they can do right now.

Maelochs · 18 Sep 2016, 02:52 (Ref:3673472)

Quote:

Originally Posted by J Jay

And the small issue of a sister brand racing in the same series with a petrol car...

Yup. People say Audi and Toyota should pull out? Why would Toyota pull out? How are they getting screwed?

And Audi and Porsche are the Same Company. Maybe VAG has decided it would rather Porsche (the more sporting marque) get more publicity than Audi ... maybe noticing that totally dominating Le Mans didn't apparently increase Audi sales and did Nothing for Audi diesels.

We can all see that Audi appears to be handicapped ... but if they didn't lobby to stop it then they must want it. Does anyone here really think that Audi doesn't know how to play FIA politics? Given that they have ruled the entire 21st Century so far?

Ephaeton · 18 Sep 2016, 02:53 (Ref:3673473)

But why should the guys with the lighter engines be discouraged from gaining that advantage? The problem goes both ways, as usual.

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