2019 VASC Silly Season (WITH POLL)

[djr81]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

The chassis is exactly the same no matter if you are a Nissan, FG, Mustang or ZB as it's a controlled chassis. What is different are the things that getting added... You do the math’s, is 4 doors heavier than 2 doors?

So the glasshouse on the Mustang that fits over the standard chassis - the one everyone is complaining about on account of it being too big is at the same time too light?

Or are you saying cut and shut fibreglass skinned doors are heavier than the fibreglass skinned body and that this has a big effect on the cog?

[f351c]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

The chassis is exactly the same no matter if you are a Nissan, FG, Mustang or ZB as it's a controlled chassis. What is different are the things that getting added... You do the math’s, is 4 doors heavier than 2 doors?

Ok, but what about the extra length in the rear quarters that covers where the doors would be for the 2nd row of seats? Should we make the Mustangs carry two extra doors in the boot, but make the ZB and Nissan carry extra long quarter panels?

Let's be realistic. The number of doors the Mustang does or doesn't have has nothing to do with the weight or performance of the finished racecar. Mustangs would still carry ballast with 2 more carbon kevlar panels which resemble 'doors' just as ZB carries ballast.

Weight of the cars is the same, one make carries it ever so slightly lower than the other, this wasn't a problem for the last 4 years. It is now. The only change is it's not a Commodore with the advantage.

Ever so slightly because all the heavy stuff in a car is controlled. Wheels. Uprights. Transaxle. Front bars. Engines. Brakes. Rollcages. All common or Controlled. That leaves some composite work and a plastic 'glasshouse' if that is what is causing the so called Mustang advantage I've got a bridge you can buy.

Aero is where it's at. VCAT numbers are the closest ever. The 'infallible' roll-down test. With more holes in it than a slice of Swiss cheese.

Roland did a good job with CFD. Ford Performance did a better one. Both perform the closest they ever have. Let them race or admit the test is broken and fix it. Rehomologate them all - NEXT YEAR. you have already accepted the entries for this year and told us all they were equal.

[Joe5619]

If people can't understand how a 2 door coupe (even if stretched) would weight less than a 4 door sedan/ hatch, then there is no point in my continuing!! Common sense is not being used, emotion is!

[f351c]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

If people can't understand how a 2 door coupe (even if stretched) would weight less than a 4 door sedan/ hatch, then there is no point in my continuing!! Common sense is not being used, emotion is!

Common sense is not ignoring the fact that the race cars are not made up of production body shells. They are a control designed tube frame chassis with brackets attached to hang composite panels off. They are all made to fit over the same cage which gives them all the same dimensions.

Weights of the production versions of the cars has nothing to do with it.

For reference 5 mins on Google puts ZB at ~1600kg Mustang at ~1700kg. You're welcome.

[bluesport]

If a parity adjustment is enforced and by mid-season Triple 8 get their heads around the linear spring set-up ending up in front of the pack will there be a readjustment of the parity?

[Umai Naa]

Why?

The issue in question is that there were vastly different centre of gravity figures across the three brands. This is to be rectified in time for Symmons Plains. It's one of few uncontrolled variabes left for the catagory to clamp down on. Hopefully common sense will prevail, and a control front upright will be introduced.

[Forda]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

They should use the Nissan as the baseline, it is the slower of the 3 body shapes... bring both the ZB and Mustang back to that model.

Socialism, in a motor racing parlance...

Looks like they've done exactly this.

Mustang and ZB to have ballast stuck to their roofs.
https://www.speedcafe.com/2019/03/27...ravity-tweaks/

[Compromised]

Nissan have got to feel dirty...

[Umai Naa]

The tests were done at their facilities too.

It's be like coming home to find another man/woman in your bed.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

Why?

The issue in question is that there were vastly different centre of gravity figures across the three brands. This is to be rectified in time for Symmons Plains. It's one of few uncontrolled variabes left for the catagory to clamp down on. Hopefully common sense will prevail, and a control front upright will be introduced.

Isn't there an aero adjustment in the pipeline too?

That's what I was referring to not CoG.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Compromised

Nissan have got to feel dirty...

Why? Arguably the field is being brought back to them...

[Umai Naa]

As far as I know, they're looking into it.

They may not bother, if the COG adjustment is deemed sufficient.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by f351c

Common sense is not ignoring the fact that the race cars are not made up of production body shells. They are a control designed tube frame chassis with brackets attached to hang composite panels off. They are all made to fit over the same cage which gives them all the same dimensions.

Weights of the production versions of the cars has nothing to do with it.

For reference 5 mins on Google puts ZB at ~1600kg Mustang at ~1700kg. You're welcome.

And yet the Mustang, somehow needs 5 times the weight added up high to be even to ZB.. That is the only facts we need, everything else is emotions!!

[f351c]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

And yet the Mustang, somehow needs 5 times the weight added up high to be even to ZB.. That is the only facts we need, everything else is emotions!!

The key missing fact is 5 times what?

In a 1395kg racecar 5 x 50kg is statistically significant, 5 x 100 grammes less so.

Plus the overall weight is the same, all we are talking about here is where the centrepoint of that weight is. Even at 5 times 10kg, 50kg added to the roofline of a 1395kg car isn't exactly moving the centre of gravity much more than a few mms northwards.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Forda

Mustang and ZB to have ballast stuck to their roofs.
https://www.speedcafe.com/2019/03/27...ravity-tweaks/

Motorsport.com understands the original figures given to teams were 30 kilograms for the Mustang and six kilograms for the Commodore, however sources indicated those numbers were likely to shift before being finalised. The changes don't affect the Nissan Altima.

https://au.motorsport.com/v8supercar...hange/4359083/



Crikey!

Originally Posted by f351c

The key missing fact is 5 times what?

5 x 6 kg = 30kg.

[f351c]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

https://au.motorsport.com/v8supercar...hange/4359083/



Crikey!



5 x 6 kg = 30kg.

2% of the cars overall mass placed ~1000mm higher in the vehicle.

Probably get a bigger change from running flexi front bar mounts and dropping the ride height a touch more!

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by f351c

2% of the cars overall mass placed ~1000mm higher in the vehicle.
Probably get a bigger change from running flexi front bar mounts and dropping the ride height a touch more!

If it's insignificant, then why make any change at all?

Originally Posted by DJR Team Penske

We worked hard with Ford and Ford Performance to develop the Mustang within the rules of the series and in close conjunction and regular communication with the series. Our team will not be commenting at the present time.

[Compromised]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Why? Arguably the field is being brought back to them...

At minimum, 1 season and 2 events late (ZB proven to have unfair advantage). At maximum, who knows - VF/FG probably had a CoG advantage over the Altima too. Pity no one was checking...

[djr81]

What an absolute crock of .....

So they have "fixed" the cog by increasing the Mustangs polar moment of inertia in roll. Should hand an advantage back to the Commodores. Job done then.

[Umai Naa]

You might find that the ZB has been hobbled as well.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by djr81

So they have "fixed" the cog by increasing the Mustangs polar moment of inertia in roll.

That's the reason people want a low C.O.G. in a motor vehicle or race car in the first place after all: to reduce roll (by reducing the roll moment of the C.O.G. about the roll centre).

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

You might find that the ZB has been hobbled as well.

One should hope so. If so, than the Altima should finally find it's rightful place in the top 5 positions and/or podium.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

One should hope so. If so, than the Altima should finally find it's rightful place in the top 5 positions and/or podium.

Wonder if they tested only the #15 Nissan or also the '13 spec #78 as well...

[V8 Fireworks]

The 2006 champion claims that for every 10mm the centre of gravity is lower there would have been a 0.4s lap time gain at Albert Park.

https://www.speedcafe.com/2019/03/28...mpact-results/

Bloody 'ell. If the change is significant as 5mm against the Mustang, that 0.2s would make quite a big difference, especially to Holdsworth who would plummet 12th to 20th or so in the tightly packed Supercars midfield.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Bloody 'ell. If the change is significant as 5mm against the Mustang, that 0.2s would make quite a big difference, especially to Holdsworth who would plummet 12th to 20th or so in the tightly packed Supercars midfield.

... Back to where he belongs?

[Forda]

Originally Posted by Mixer

... Back to where he belongs?

Perhaps if he was still shackled to the curse which is Team 18.