Sump baffles . . .

zefarelly · 15 Mar 2004, 09:35 (Ref:905659)

Here I go again !

I baffled my sump . . .as described in A.G. Bells 4 stroke performance tuning book, and also as I'd seen on a few other sumps I've had in the past, I have a front bowl with a front/back centre baffle, and a top plate which covers the left side and half the right side, the open 1/4 is to allow for the pick up pipe and gauze to fit (quite large)

I was having surge problems on fast right handers . . . .(Lavant Corner and Madgewick at Goodwood) I think it may be because I was running hot, but would anyone dispute my baffling methods? or recommend anything different

I'm not allowed a dry sump system.

KC · 15 Mar 2004, 14:14 (Ref:905931)

Here in the US we call it a windage tray. Baffles separate the oil pan into three sections with flapper doors between each section to keep the oil pickup from running dry. The drag boat we race uses one that captures the oil in the fgront of the block. Under hard acceleration the oil pump will easily be starved.

zefarelly · 15 Mar 2004, 14:23 (Ref:905940)

I think I may try that . . . piano hinge flaps to only let the oil into the pick up area but not back the other way I think also a different pick up pipe end . . .smaller to reduce the baffle plate opening size

Richy_Rich · 15 Mar 2004, 14:36 (Ref:905949)

I use an oil pump with a modified pickup pipe that is much longer and angled to get right down into the deepest part of the sump.

**Tim Falce** · 15 Mar 2004, 15:33 (Ref:905989)

Can you put any more oil in the engine so it doesn't run as low? Where is the pick up pipe situated in the sump. I used to get problems under heavy braking with the pipe at the rear.

zefarelly · 15 Mar 2004, 16:02 (Ref:906025)

the pick up pipe is fine, its the gauze on the end which is sprung to the base of the sump . . . .its about 100mm diameter, which doesnt let me cover it properly, I think I need to midify it for the later smaller crossflow type ball, then I can cover more of the bowl with a vertical plate . . . .I also left a few very small drain gaps to help oil back into the bowl . . . .maybe I didnt need to . . .and hinges will do the job better.

StephenRae · 15 Mar 2004, 17:02 (Ref:906093)

I made a sump for a Pinto engine where the pickup was allowed to swivel from side to side in the vertical plane, sealed with an 'O'ring and with a weight at the pickup end.

The theory was that it would follow the oil when cornering.

If it turns out that I invented it then I've just blown my patent rights!!!

graham bahr · 15 Mar 2004, 18:18 (Ref:906178)

an accusump device may be one answer, i assume your using an X/flow? then maybe a zetec windage tray will also fit, seeing as they fit cvh and the x/flow block is similar

BugEyed · 15 Mar 2004, 19:14 (Ref:906224)

Quote:

Originally posted by KC
Here in the US we call it a windage tray.

KC

Here in the UK we have both items. The windage tray is to stop churning of the oil and to separate the air and oil. The sump baffling is to prevent surge under cornering/accelerating/braking.

To answer the question - button valves as used in the chemical industry can be used to allow one way flow, and I'd suggest dividing the sump into 3 sections front to rear and use a central pickup.

HTH

Duncan

KC · 15 Mar 2004, 19:42 (Ref:906248)

StephenRae, I have seen oil pickup tubes made to swivel for sprint car engines so that the pickup tube will follow the oil from side to side in the oil pan.

Since the engine is techically sitting backwards in our boat (the drive end faces forwards), the oil pan is a marine only version (literally made backwards) and it uses a long bent oil pickup because the oil pump is now in the front. Looks wierd, but it works.

Zefarelly, I noticed you mentioned running a gauze pad on the oil pickup. I wondered why? It would seem to inhibit oil flow too much to me. Our oil pickup has a screen on it to limit pickup up of large pieces if something does happen to fail, but the oil filter itself captures most of the particulate matter from the rings, bearings, etc. We also use 6 rare earth magents on the inside of the oil pan to help to contain steel particles and keep them from being cycled through the bearings. Just stick them in the bottom away from the pump pickup. I can assure they work because I have cleaned them when we tear down for maintenance.

zefarelly · 16 Mar 2004, 09:50 (Ref:906835)

I've seen magnets used on filters . . . .so O guess they must work . . . . perhaps modifying the pick up gauze will help, and perhaps some more modifications to the baffles.

I think one of the problems was also hot swishy oil as I was running a bit warmer than I'd have liked.

quite a learning curve this week !

StephenRae · 16 Mar 2004, 11:19 (Ref:906902)

KC...I thought the 'swiveling pickup' was too easy to be original.
Zef...Can't you just dry sump and be done with all the maybes.

Richy_Rich · 16 Mar 2004, 11:27 (Ref:906907)

Don't think he's allowed a dry sump. You might get away with an accumulator though (if you can be bothered).

StephenRae · 16 Mar 2004, 11:36 (Ref:906913)

Richy....Thats a shame I make dry sumps commercially and thought I might be in for a touch!!!!!

zefarelly · 16 Mar 2004, 12:43 (Ref:906962)

I've got a dry sump and punmp laying about . . .but I'm not allowed . . . .accusump I'm not sure about . . . .or how it works . . .I know Peter uses it . . .is it automatically operated ?

BugEyed · 16 Mar 2004, 12:56 (Ref:906977)

Here is a link to the Accusump website that gives you all the information that you could possibly want.

IMHO these are a solution to a problem that should be avoidable by other means. However, if you have a problem that you can't sort then they do work.

Before buying one, think about the added weight (is this a problem on your car?), any packaging limitations, and the reduction in oil pressure caused when the unit refills.

HTH

Duncan

Onlooker · 19 Mar 2004, 05:04 (Ref:910238)

The gates work really well from my experience also but you have to first ensure that you have trapped the oild in the bottom.I don't know what your sump looks like but if you need a big hole on one side to get the pick up in then some little plates (say 20 x 100)welded out from the insides where the hole is will stop the oil from getting out there also.

zefarelly · 19 Mar 2004, 09:45 (Ref:910483)

accusump looks good . . . .as long as it does what it says on the tin . . .and if its FiA legal for historics . . . .

I think I need to make a top plat and cat flaps as accurately as possible to trap whatever capacity sits in the sump, and possibly modify the pick up pipe to suck from the middle rather than one side, and also so I can have a smaller hole in the top plate . . .the bowl of the sump is square so fairly easy to play with

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