Now its Aero.....Today's Todd Kelly Nissan complaining

[mickyv8]

I inititally thought Nissan’s returning to V8’s was great. The Nissan PR machine kept us up to date pumping our positive news talking about modern technology, new engines, overhead cams, multi valves. They choose a slippery new car, and an engine that wins World GT championship. Mr Nissan says their V8 engine is innovative and modern not like the old engines.

The Kelly Brothers and John Crennan tell everyone they are the best team without factory funding and now they have it they will show the world. They have to have factory money to race.

But then Todd Kelly starts talking less power, it’s not fair, they had 10 year’s we are new.

Then they bring out the Nissan race engine experts and say they are the best, making changes.

Then they start on about fuel consumption saying it doesn’t match, saying they will be in trouble. Misteriously V8s change the sprint race lengths from 120 to 100 kilometers.

They at Winton they got E70 and the two Nortan Nissan’s find a couple of tenths, qualify better and win. Ford and Holden cried foul and Todd Kelly calls them all sooks and says he worked harder.

They take the E70 away and the Nortan Nissan’s go backwards to the Jack Daniels ones.

Todd Kelly says its not fair, the data is proof it’s not better for them and now they have to pit for longer. And the others are just sooks.

He also says they cant afford R&D and Nissan will leave the sport!!!!!

Today I wake up and turn on Adcafe and now its aerodynamics!!!

“If we do find that we get the engine on song later in the year and are still massively struggling up the straights, we’ll certainly be pushing to have it (the aero package) looked at,” he added.

What????????? It seems that every day Todd Kelly complains about something!!! Is it me or is he just a big big whinger?????

I read the other day T8 has won over 50 races for Holden since they switched brands. They switched, had to change motors and also change bodys, then go from VE to VF for future car. How many races have the Kellys won?

I get the feeling that Holden dumping the Kellys for 888 was the smartest move ever!

[bluesport]

It's a new era, V8 supercars have to run the category differently than what they have done in the past, else they will end up with something that resembles commodore cup.

[pigs fly]

Could not disagree with what say, Toddler is sounding more like his nickname every day now.

[Average Punter]

Who was it on the coverage yesterday that said slipstreaming behind a Nissan was great as they "were like a brick" and "made a big hole" in the air?????

[Umai Naa]

The aerodynamics were meant to be as equal as possible across all four shapes. The Kellys developed their own aero, presented it for testing, and had it signed off.

From what experts are saying outside of the sport, the specifications of the newer engines need to change. Some are suggestiong a higher compression ratio, others an increase in capacity, and then perhaps, an increase in the rev limit. Outright horsepower is one thing, drivability is another. V8SC needs to change the rules a little on the newer engines to ease the pain a bit for the teams. Otherwise, these new manufacturers are not going to stick around.

[Umai Naa]

Originally Posted by Average Punter

Who was it on the coverage yesterday that said slipstreaming behind a Nissan was great as they "were like a brick" and "made a big hole" in the air?????

Jason Bright, I think. He may have mentioned it on Ad Cafe.

[EfiOz]

V8SC aero testing has always been a fudge at best. The methodology employed is hopelessly flawed and it's way too easy to fudge.

I You can tell who played with the straightest bat now. 10kmh in a straight line at Sandown is certainly one hell of a whole in the air!

[Bell_End]

Originally Posted by EfiOz

V8SC aero testing has always been a fudge at best. The methodology employed is hopelessly flawed and it's way too easy to fudge.

I You can tell who played with the straightest bat now. 10kmh in a straight line at Sandown is certainly one hell of a whole in the air!

How does one fudge a controlled test where all four makes are tested side by side??

Yeah ok you might not get exact data of the aero produced but you get comparable data across the four brands..

[EfiOz]

Originally Posted by Bell_End

How does one fudge a controlled test where all four makes are tested side by side??

Yeah ok you might not get exact data of the aero produced but you get comparable data across the four brands..

"Controlled" is the key word in that sentence.

[Bell_End]

well go on, you made the claim that everything is easily fudged so spill it..

[champcarman]

It is generally accepted that the Kelly Racing machines have BETTER aero than the others cars.

[Jam3s]

Originally Posted by champcarman

It is generally accepted that the Kelly Racing machines have BETTER aero than the others cars.

Yes, "better aero" as in more downforce, however more downforce = more drag = slower top speed. That is why they were so quick around Winton which is a track where downforce is more important than top end, but at Sandown it was their worst enemy. Expect them to be really quick around the top of the mountain at Bathurst but they will be destroyed down conrod.

[djr81]

So now it has too much drag???

http://www.motoring.com.au/news/2012...slippery-33389

But observers are already noting the slippery Nissan may potentially have an unassailable aerodynamic advantage over the incumbent Supercars. Not only is the Nissan windshield rake steeper but overall frontal area is reduced.

V8SC CotF 'architect' Mark Skaife says this is a scenario the racing formula will be able to address.


"This is [a] very, very complex, question... [But] We’re going to apply world’s best practice to aero testing and engine equalisation," Mr Skaife told motoring.com.au.


"This is thousands of days in the planning, not just thinking about it now. As Todd [Kelly] said, when this car runs it will have various configurations of front aero and rear aero to be able to, firstly, make it competitive from a downforce standpoint, and for us to be able to properly assess the [overall] drag," Mr Skaife explained.


"We’ve already conducted the first lot of aero testing with the Ford and Holden Car of the Future prototypes. This car will be tested against those cars shortly. And at the end of that program, we’re confident, from a downforce standpoint, that part is a reasonably easy step.


"[With reference to] overall drag... We’ve done a lot of work already on what we believe are the critical areas of the car... [and]... we’ve worked very closely with Kelly Racing on having options to fill those. So if you look, for instance, on the corners of the cars, there’ll be lots of options for effectively flattening off the front of the car," Mr Skaife explained.


Mr Skaife says, however, that V8SCs is cognisant of the fact the Altima must be recognisable to the man in the street.


"What we don’t want to do is hurt the design in terms of the market relevance -- the authenticity of the car. So from our standpoint, we think that we can do that. Todd’s confident we can do that also. And we’ve matched it [the race car] up very closely on CFD [computational fluid dynamics] with the two [computer] models that we’re currently using. So I don’t think it's as big a step as we think," he stated.

[GTRMagic]

Give a Nissan Altima to 888, they could make it win

[EfiOz]

Originally Posted by Jam3s

Yes, "better aero" as in more downforce, however more downforce = more drag = slower top speed. That is why they were so quick around Winton which is a track where downforce is more important than top end, but at Sandown it was their worst enemy. Expect them to be really quick around the top of the mountain at Bathurst but they will be destroyed down conrod.

Very good point. The speed trap numbers from Sandown certainly point that way.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by djr81

"This is [a] very, very complex, question... [But] We’re going to apply world’s best practice to aero testing and engine equalisation," Mr Skaife told motoring.com.au.

Is this the same worlds best practice that saw the E70 experiment?

Originally Posted by djr81

"What we don’t want to do is hurt the design in terms of the market relevance -- the authenticity of the car.

Does he understand what COTF has done to market relevance Eg. The control V8SC engine - how market revelent would that be?

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Tourer

The idea of a "control" engine that any manufacturer could use was killed off very early in the COTF process.

Erebus AMG, Nissan and Volvo would likely not have joined the series in a "control engine" environment...

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Erebus AMG, Nissan and Volvo would likely not have joined the series in a "control engine" environment...

Totally agree

[Woolley]

E70 petrol discussion already exists, lets keep this one to aero. Posts moved.

[mickyv8]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Give a Nissan Altima to 888, they could make it win

They sure could! I think Kellys are to flashy and more concerned with pumping there tires up instead of building cars that are good. Think about it......they took over Perkins and ran Holdens all there careers but they got just a couple wins before switching. 888 ran Fords and switched to Holden and smashed them. Kellys look silly.

[EfiOz]

Its not like they inherited a treasure chest of winning goodness from Perkins. It's been a long time since a Larry car had speed.

[GTRMagic]

Interesting times out Nissan way. With all the noise around the parity issues of the NisMo Australia Altima aero kit, DeltaWing guru Mr Bowlby was co-opted to aid the redesign process Here

Some whispers out of Homebush today were wondering whether the aero secrets unlocked using these resources, might be a part of the claims made by Mr Panoz Here

Doesnt sound like a whole lot of fun...

Meantime.. does it mean Mr Bowlby is on gardening leave in the interim, and not able to assist with the redesign?

[Juarez Jed]

I guess that rules out the Altima running on 3 wheels in 2014 then ?

[EfiOz]

Whatever Panoz thinks he bought is akin to believing you've really bought the Brooklyn Bridge. How can you sell something like the idea of the Delta Wing??

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by EfiOz

Whatever Panoz thinks he bought is akin to believing you've really bought the Brooklyn Bridge. How can you sell something like the idea of the Delta Wing??

Depends if any of the technology has been patented or not...