IMSA Cadillac

[JoeW04]

One of my favourite cars to have been fortunate too see at Le Mans, I was staying at Tetre Rouge so you could hear it arriving then a lift off then back on the throttle on exit, just brilliant

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by joeb

Having to add oil to the car at every pit stop cost them up to 15 seconds per stop and around 3 minutes by the end of the race - dropping them from the lead lap. Interesting they attribute this problem to the renewable fuel - same thing happened at Daytona.

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...no-2-cadillac/

Interesting to hear, unfortunately I don't have access to the linked background story about the Rolex so I'm missing most if not all of the relevant info.

So as a true keyboard warrior who doesn't need any research: if Caddy was anticipating potential issues with the fuel why weren't they able to overcome them? Or, were they but not to the full extent?

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

if Caddy was anticipating potential issues with the fuel why weren't they able to overcome them? Or, were they but not to the full extent?

Good point.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

Interesting to hear, unfortunately I don't have access to the linked background story about the Rolex so I'm missing most if not all of the relevant info.

So as a true keyboard warrior who doesn't need any research: if Caddy was anticipating potential issues with the fuel why weren't they able to overcome them? Or, were they but not to the full extent?

I would guess, it would take an entirely new engine to overcome them? and adding oil was their known antidote? But my question would be why didn't other teams suffer same fate? The article mentioned that Acura had similar issues at Daytona, which to me signifies some ancillary part, a seal, or something in the engine that is the culprit, but not all teams use the same?

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by joeb

The article mentioned that Acura had similar issues at Daytona, which to me signifies some ancillary part, a seal, or something in the engine that is the culprit, but not all teams use the same?

You mean pistons, rings, mounting tolerances or treatments? You'll never know I fear. Back to Coach Ep remarks, they could have done something to top up quicker. The Ferarris seemed to smoke a lot after a pit stop (rear right side) but may be they've found a more sophisticated system to complete the oil level. I remember Audi having fixed that years ago. I dont know if they're allowed to have an inboard oil reservoir tho. I guess they're not.

[RL17]

Originally Posted by joeb

Having to add oil to the car at every pit stop cost them up to 15 seconds per stop and around 3 minutes by the end of the race - dropping them from the lead lap. Interesting they attribute this problem to the renewable fuel - same thing happened at Daytona.

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...no-2-cadillac/

No 2 had total pit time just over 2 mins 5 sec or so more than Toyota 8 and less than Ferrari 51 (with its 2 reboots)

But Caddy had a 3min 12 sec and 3 min 54 sec or so pitstop in there too - so the oil couldn’t have cost them 15sec a stop (which my maths or math would be 2 laps and outright victory rather than putting them on same lap). They were only a lap and approx 2.15 down (both 51 and 2 slowed on final lap compared to No 8)

[joeb]

Originally Posted by RL17

No 2 had total pit time just over 2 mins 5 sec or so more than Toyota 8 and less than Ferrari 51 (with its 2 reboots)

But Caddy had a 3min 12 sec and 3 min 54 sec or so pitstop in there too - so the oil couldn’t have cost them 15sec a stop (which my maths or math would be 2 laps and outright victory rather than putting them on same lap). They were only a lap and approx 2.15 down (both 51 and 2 slowed on final lap compared to No 8)

Thanks. Were the long stops for brakes or a damage repair?

And there is another question I've been wanting to get an answer to. Did the 2 car have any off track experiences? I don't recall hearing/seeing them off track at all. Did they lose time after a spin or off course moment during the race?

[Adam43]

From when did the Caddy have to add oil and was it every stop, or every few?

I can’t remember if #2 had an off. So much happened I can’t remember.

I checked this clip. It didn’t crash. If someone would like to check out the rest of the race that would be grand.
https://youtu.be/gI2lkpdEH2I

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by joeb

Having to add oil to the car at every pit stop cost them up to 15 seconds per stop and around 3 minutes by the end of the race - dropping them from the lead lap. Interesting they attribute this problem to the renewable fuel - same thing happened at Daytona.

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...no-2-cadillac/

Interesting... I don't remember the exact math, but ethanol is something like 50% "thinner" than gasoline, so it leaks past the cylinder rings, mixes with the oil, then burns off and takes a bit of oil with it. This is an issue all alcohol powered cars, even street cars. It makes you wonder how economically and ecologically sound renewable fuels really are. A SBC/LS/LT, despite its displacement, is a very effecient race engine too.

I learned this from watching drag racing because drag racing is rad too.

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by Adam43

From when did the Caddy have to add oil and was it every stop, or every few?

“We just had to keep putting oil in every stop, which was costing us 6-10 seconds, which was making us slowly eke our way back.”
Bamber said the oil fills began from the second stop of the race.
“We just had to keep putting a lot of oil in it,” he explained."

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by Adam43

If someone would like to check out the rest of the race that would be grand.

[Gerard C]

I see some confusionsing things and suspect PR people belonies. More interesting than rewatching the full race (Adam, c'on!!!) did someone recorded a full pit stop. I guess there's a reservoir under the bonnet or are they using a syringe -I very very much doubt about this!-?
Or are they preparing a visit to Geneva and ask for a BoP new article…

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

“We just had to keep putting oil in every stop, which was costing us 6-10 seconds, which was making us slowly eke our way back.”
Bamber said the oil fills began from the second stop of the race.
“We just had to keep putting a lot of oil in it,” he explained."

Thanks

[RL17]

Didn’t think 2 had any excursions
Long stops at 19.42pm and 00.26am?

Pretty much on same lap but 1 to 2 mins down at 2.30 to 4 am

No 3 had rear end shunt and huge spin in wet close to barriers at start of Porsche curves (could have been a lot worse there) - pretty good show for No 3 after Thursday night bbq

[RL17]

6 secs or so a stop makes more sense

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by RL17

6 secs or so a stop makes more sense

Yep, sure. I dunno how they now check the oil level, it must be remotely I guess, but back in the day the refulling guy could see several LED's located near the filler neck, indications were at least about coolant and oil, temps and levels.
RL17, you're talking about this spin (those would be more accurate) I think, from 3'42": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfEUkfwyUg0

[RL17]

Yep that spin - our campsite in background with big white marquee just at start of Porsche curves. Amazing how wet it was there yet only a few spots of rain then sunshine at T23 (had end of stand seat closest to start line).

Found the Vanwall parked up a few feet away from us in the morning - had a good spot this year about 25m from track ?

[RL17]

Originally Posted by RL17

Didn’t think 2 had any excursions
Long stops at 19.42pm and 00.26am?

Pretty much on same lap but 1 to 2 mins down at 2.30 to 4 am

No 3 had rear end shunt and huge spin in wet close to barriers at start of Porsche curves (could have been a lot worse there) - pretty good show for No 3 after Thursday night bbq

Wondered about both long stops at LM for No2 - were under SC with cars held at pit exit - believe 2 Ferraris also on same pit cycle and also held with similiar stops.

Quick calcs- Backing out extra time of those long stops No 2 29 pitstops in approx 42m 15 s (total was 46m 25s) average 1m 27s, Toyota 8 with est 43m 10s (base 44.20) for 31 stops 1m 24s average and Ferrari 51 43m 14s (after SC and 2 reboots from 47m58s) average of 1m 26s

So pretty close pitstops times based on those estimates - especially between 51 and 8. So Toyota 8 about 1m45 s down on Ferrari over race (before last couple of laps) and Ferrari spending extra 3m 38s in pit (although Hirakawa at Arnage on lap 314 lost 1m14s and 2m01m on a followup pitstop after possible rear damage - probably cost Toyota the race).

[Adam43]

So on,y one WEC entry in 2024. They’d like two, but it is one for cost reasons. We’ve mentioned that elsewhere.

I hadn’t realised that the team to run the WEC car hasn’t been confirmed. I’m sure it will be Ganassi, but it’s not been confirmed.

It is Ganassi and Action Express in IMSA.

[veeten]

At the end of this season it'll be only Action Express taking over for Cadillac, as Ganassi will bow out.

https://www.sportscar365.com/lemans/...t-end-of-year/

[Adam43]

I think one team two cars could be a better plan.

Originally Posted by Jim Campbell, GM’s U.S. Vice President of performance and motorsports

We remain committed to winning races and championships together in IMSA and FIA WEC this year.

phew!

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Ganassi and Caddy part ways at the end of the seasons, IMSA and WEC.

https://racer.com/2024/03/11/chip-ga...t-seasons-end/

Racer saying they're hearing AXR going back to 2 cars for IMSA in 25. WEC could be United, TF Sport and one other team not known in the running. CGR looking to partner with someone new to stay in sportscars

Sorry dropped it in the IMSA thread earlier, will be interesting to see if it becomes 4 full time or they find a team to run 1 WEC and AXR try to get a LM entry

[tomcug]

This program being slim on cash is something we already discussed before and I think the latest news confirm that. So any bets who runs Caddy in the WEC next year? In IMSA probably AXR will have 2 cars but in the WEC I have no idea who could take over. United most likely not, they're too close with McLaren.

[broadrun96]

So close that they don't have any McLaren drivers in their squad?? And they have run plenty of LMP projects that weren't McLaren badged. I would venture them first and TF Sport second with an off the wall team not yet named in the mix so they stay at LM

I wonder how much is cash is slim or slim only in terms of Ganassi/Penske team level demands. I'm willing to bet any renewal of the program came with a price increase and CGR ain't doing it for free now and no sponsors on the cars at all. I would have expected someone to come on board but looks like he wanted full funding effort.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Adam43

I think one team two cars could be a better plan.

phew!

Not something I expected to wake up and read. Wonder what will become of the Ganassi drivers? Will GM ship them to a new team?