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Old 12 Feb 2020, 20:47 (Ref:3957320)   #16
MGDavid
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
Producers of EVs are improving the battery situation all the time.
10yr old EVs are not worthless now, so why would it be different in 2030?
It says in that ad you linked to -
'range up to 70 miles' - how much good is that ffs? I'm only in the Thames Valley but it wouldn't reliably get me into London and back; certainly wouldn't allow me to nip down to see relos in Cheltenham or Brighton, or to visit Race Retro for the day, or to visit many of my racer pals. It's a joke....
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Old 12 Feb 2020, 20:55 (Ref:3957321)   #17
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It says in that ad you linked to -
'range up to 70 miles' - how much good is that ffs? I'm only in the Thames Valley but it wouldn't reliably get me into London and back; certainly wouldn't allow me to nip down to see relos in Cheltenham or Brighton, or to visit Race Retro for the day, or to visit many of my racer pals. It's a joke....
It only had a range of 85 miles at new. The point being, battery degradation is not that drastic at 10yrs, even on early EVs.
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Old 12 Feb 2020, 22:05 (Ref:3957326)   #18
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Why is it always assumed that what we have now in the way of EVs are what we will have in the future? After all, the ICE of today bears no resemblance to what we see in the London to Brighton Run.

I've been doing a bit of research online, and I've found some postings from X-Xths dated January 1900:

"These stupid petrol engines, they're useless compared to a horse. Five miles per hour following a man with a red flag? WTF use is that, my horse goes faster blindfold. And they can't go more than a few miles without breaking down and needing adjustment. Any horse worth its salt will go for hours without slowing down. And they leak oil and leave stains all over the place! When my horse relieves itself it soaks into the ground, and its manure cultivates my roses. I'd like to see a car doing that...."

Plus ca change as Gerry Mo would say.
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Old 12 Feb 2020, 22:14 (Ref:3957327)   #19
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I think we have some good resources for the future. The fact we have many types of renewable energy all over the country shows how far we have come. We have many ways to keep going

The fact that we had to get used to changing technology shows we can continue to do that. I mean the horse and cart analogy shows how reluctant people were to change, but also shows how technology can take a while to get going

Certainly we can look back in a few years time like we have done with everything, like sport and technology and think how far we have gone
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Old 13 Feb 2020, 03:59 (Ref:3957350)   #20
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I think we have some good resources for the future. The fact we have many types of renewable energy all over the country shows how far we have come. We have many ways to keep going

The fact that we had to get used to changing technology shows we can continue to do that. I mean the horse and cart analogy shows how reluctant people were to change, but also shows how technology can take a while to get going

Certainly we can look back in a few years time like we have done with everything, like sport and technology and think how far we have gone

The change from horse drawn vehicles was, in large cities, fairly rapid for public transport and commercial vehicles since the benefits were clear (until taxes on fuels took a grip).

For personal transport in general it took somewhat longer - especially in the cities.

That said I recall feeding the milkman's horse when visiting my grandmother in a Midlands.

Grandmother in South London had, iirc, electric milk floats to deliver milk.

Now the floats that are still operating are diesel. I think around our way the electric floats that are available (if there are any left) would probably not have enough range for some of the routes they need to run.

If the current (excuse the unintended pun) shift to electric proves to be genuinely possible and accepted then it will happen anyway.

The the governments showing more "commitment" are having to juggle subsidies, energy price supports and legal threats to force matters suggests the public are not entirely buying into the concepts wholeheartedly.
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Old 13 Feb 2020, 07:08 (Ref:3957362)   #21
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My first (and only) electric experience was to drive a converted Golf in Holland in 2009; I was really impressed by the performance but have things really progressed in the intervening 11 years?

I shall be 80 in 2032 so at least I shouldn't have to bother about owning one!
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Old 13 Feb 2020, 07:58 (Ref:3957374)   #22
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I seem to be the only person on here that is excited and fascinated by the EV revolution.

It will work, we will sort it out I am sure. The ICE has had its day and will remain the preserve of enthusiasts, possibly only on approved race tracks. This gives a great opportunity to the future Deltas and Maxes to keep the sport going and build a niche business.

What we have at the moment is just a sticking plaster, the future will be very different. It's the first major change in three generations, and sorely needed.

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Old 13 Feb 2020, 08:49 (Ref:3957381)   #23
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Originally Posted by midgetman View Post
I seem to be the only person on here that is excited and fascinated by the EV revolution.

It will work, we will sort it out I am sure. The ICE has had its day and will remain the preserve of enthusiasts, possibly only on approved race tracks. This gives a great opportunity to the future Deltas and Maxes to keep the sport going and build a niche business.

What we have at the moment is just a sticking plaster, the future will be very different. It's the first major change in three generations, and sorely needed.

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Would much prefer us to explore hydrogen power and the safe storage options.
Interestingly WrightBus in N Ireland was recently bought out from Administration by one of the JCB offspring who has an “hydrogen ice business” snd has put his engines in some WrightBus prototypes I think.
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Old 13 Feb 2020, 09:08 (Ref:3957383)   #24
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I seem to be the only person on here that is excited and fascinated by the EV revolution.

It will work, we will sort it out I am sure. The ICE has had its day and will remain the preserve of enthusiasts, possibly only on approved race tracks. This gives a great opportunity to the future Deltas and Maxes to keep the sport going and build a niche business.

What we have at the moment is just a sticking plaster, the future will be very different. It's the first major change in three generations, and sorely needed.

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Neither for nor against, really. As I already said, the performance is impressive but it's limited by the poor range. I live in the country & do very little city driving so it's currently (joke not intended!) of little or no use to me.
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Old 13 Feb 2020, 09:32 (Ref:3957386)   #25
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Video of a scientist talking about ICE versus Electric . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNRk4iGreSw
40 odd minutes , & he does waffle a lot , but shows that the ICE will still be the only thing for transport use .With over 90% of all goods vehicles , which use over 55% of road fuel. [ A large container ship would need a 1 million ton battery & aircraft will not get off the ground ]

This video will probably never get in the MSM , & Google will probably censor it as it does not comply with their left wing agenda , but it does tell a few truths .
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Old 13 Feb 2020, 09:40 (Ref:3957387)   #26
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I seem to be the only person on here that is excited and fascinated by the EV revolution.
The benefits of EVs appeal - I reckon a small hatchback EV would be an absolute hoot on my drive to work down the lanes, instant torque for maximum giggles Currently though EVs just aren't ready for mass rollout (neither the cars themselves nor the infrastructure).

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I live in the country & do very little city driving so it's currently (joke not intended!) of little or no use to me.
Whilst my daily commute would work ok with an EV (I could charge overnight on my driveway) I need the car to be capable of long runs as well. Charging times need to come down drastically, cost needs to come down, range needs to go up, battery life needs to improve. Give it another 10 years of development and we might get there.
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Old 13 Feb 2020, 09:44 (Ref:3957388)   #27
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Certainly I can see why we have a push for EVs. We'll see how far the technology can go. Obviously there are plenty other options than EVs, so it will take a while.

Obviously they need to be longer lasting, because they haven't enough charge atm. It needs time to work. We'll see what happens in the future
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Old 13 Feb 2020, 09:48 (Ref:3957390)   #28
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My 2003 Alfa 156 Sportwagon is a diesel, so is no longer acceptable in certain places, including Essen, where I visit twice a year. Although it has now done 277,000km it is still a fine car. However, I have just bought a petrol-engined 2007 Alfa GT which, aside from being a superb car that cost me little, should cover those eventualities for a few more years.

After that, who knows?
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Old 13 Feb 2020, 10:03 (Ref:3957395)   #29
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My first (and only) electric experience was to drive a converted Golf in Holland in 2009; I was really impressed by the performance but have things really progressed in the intervening 11 years

My experience with an electric vehicle was back in the late 70s and continued into the 80s, but the performance was absolutely woeful!

Perhaps I should explain. Back then, I was a member of my local Round Table, and one of our annual traditions was to go around the village collecting donations during the lead up to Christmas in order to provide Christmas hampers for the less well off in our locality. To do this collecting, we towed a sleigh on a trailer, with loudspeakers blasting out Christmas carols and one of our members dressed up as Santa Claus waving to all and sundry , whilst we knocked on doors with our collecting tins.

During my year as chairman of the committee responsible for raising charitable donations, it became apparent that the trailer float was at the end of it's life, and one of the committee jokingly suggested that a milk float would be the perfect platform for creating a new float. As Express Dairies (and United) were one of my customers, I was delegated to see whether they would lend us one of their floats for us to use on an annual basis. To my surprise, they actually donated a float that was surplus to their requirements, along with its great big charger. They also provided and paid for a 3 phase electric supply where we stored the float, and sent an engineer out at the end of November each year to check that the float was roadworthy.

Oh, and nought to thirty took about a day, but only if you were going downhill.
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Old 13 Feb 2020, 12:02 (Ref:3957421)   #30
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It only had a range of 85 miles at new. The point being, battery degradation is not that drastic at 10yrs, even on early EVs.
No, the subject was the s/hand value of EVs at 10 years which is governed by the laws of supply and demand. The point is that today they only have a reasonable value because there are fewer available than the number of people who can manage with a short range vehicle.
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