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Old 3 May 2020, 21:37 (Ref:3974329)   #16
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Originally Posted by S griffin View Post
V8 Star never quite seemed to catch the imagination though.

Of course we had no DTM in the late 90s, but we did have the STW. How well was that received compared to the DTM?
Well, STW was killed off to make way for the new DTM. The writing probably was on the wall anyway, but from hindsight (I was only 14 years old back then and loved STW and even super-production DTC) it seems like it was seen as an okay series, but as a poor replacement for DTM during the 'interregnum' of 1997-1999.
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Old 3 May 2020, 21:41 (Ref:3974331)   #17
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I guess it helped a little bit that Super Touring was quite popular around Europe and you had star names like Aiello and Biela in it. In fact Peugeot did better in STW than BTCC
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Old 4 May 2020, 11:03 (Ref:3974412)   #18
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Originally Posted by S griffin View Post
In fact Peugeot did better in STW than BTCC
That's because the Peugeot in STW had all the 'go quick' bits on it, the BTCC Peugeot never had full factory support (it had support from Peugeot UK but not Peugeot - so they weren't allowed all the good bits to stick on the car).

But as mentioned STW rode the Super Touring wave - lots of top line cars and drivers. After the collapse of DTM/ITC it was a good replacement, then the 'new' DTM replaced STW - and the quality of the drivers has always been good in DTM (there have been a few duds too of course). Now though there's nothing obvious to fill the DTM sized gap.
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Old 4 May 2020, 11:44 (Ref:3974413)   #19
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What was the original point of DTM? To sell road cars? Are they "halo" cars for the brand or the brand itself? In the age of social media do manufacturers need to go racing to promote those cars or brand? I'd say probably not.

Is there a single class of road car which all the traditional German brands offer a product in? That's the only path I can see the series heading down. But to make that work financially these days it needs to be applied to other markets, that's the stumbling block. And where TCR initially appealed.

Opel Astra
Audi A3
Mercedes A-class
BMW 1 series

But are those the types of cars the manufacturers make sweet enough margins on? No. Are they needed to be raced to be sold? Nope. The TCR model doesn't work for manufacturers either. Does the world need another hatchback racing class? No.

Answer? Localise NGTC?
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Old 4 May 2020, 13:35 (Ref:3974423)   #20
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When it started in 84 it was with Group A rules. They had been the DRM before that, but they were more sporting tourers. I guess they needed something to sell cars in Germany like you said. Especially with the Sierra
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Old 4 May 2020, 13:47 (Ref:3974424)   #21
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Is there a single class of road car which all the traditional German brands offer a product in?

Opel Astra
Audi A3
Mercedes A-class
BMW 1 series
Would the following be a better fit for DTM?

Insignia GSi
RS4
AMG C63
M3
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Old 4 May 2020, 15:38 (Ref:3974436)   #22
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Would the following be a better fit for DTM?

Insignia GSi
RS4
AMG C63
M3
I suppose the question still applies, do you need to go racing those promote those types of cars to potential buyers these days?

Do manufacturers need DTM anymore? If the answer is no then any path forwards should be 75% focused on being affordable and accessible to amateur gentlemen racers. Take a few years to establish itself and create the groundwork for building a solid base, the Abts/Irmschers/Zakspeeds traditional tuning houses are ones who should be what the DTM are built around I feel.
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Old 4 May 2020, 17:24 (Ref:3974462)   #23
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People have floated GT3 for the future of DTM, as well as going to an electric formula. could you do an electric GT3.

Could for example you fit Formula E powertain into a GT3 spec car. Porsche,Mercedes,BMW and Audi are both in Formula E and have GT3 spec cars.
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Old 4 May 2020, 17:39 (Ref:3974469)   #24
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Would something resembling the Superstars series work?
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Old 4 May 2020, 21:08 (Ref:3974505)   #25
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I thought the idea on the other DTM thread of having Formula E internals and a DTM style body on top was the best way forward to keep the manufacturers interested.

That's an interesting idea. Todt, Agag and the German manufacturers can agree to do it.
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Old 4 May 2020, 21:55 (Ref:3974516)   #26
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That's an interesting idea. Todt, Agag and the German manufacturers can agree to do it.
The first series to crack electric racing in road going body shapes (ignoring those cumbersome jaguars) with performance that can be as exciting (if not as fast) as NA engined sportscars/touring cars is going to be gold dust to manufacturers.

Like it or not, Formula E is only getting more relevant, more popular with manufacturers, and generally stronger each season that passes.

The future is electric, or hydrogen, or something. Just not petrol/diesel.
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Old 4 May 2020, 21:59 (Ref:3974518)   #27
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Would something resembling the Superstars series work?
What happened to that one? I remember Andrea Bertolini won it with the Maserati Quattroporte - must be some 10 years ago now...

Last edited by merak1974; 4 May 2020 at 22:27.
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Old 4 May 2020, 22:49 (Ref:3974522)   #28
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What happened to that one? I remember Andrea Bertolini won it with the Maserati Quattroporte - must be some 10 years ago now...
It ran from 2004-14 running production based regulations, I think the promotor shut down, and attempt to continue under another was unsuccesful.
I could imagine that set of regs with DTM branding might work, especially if manufacturer level involvement wasn't made to be neccesary. I think there was post before in this thread suggesting that involving tuning companies might be the best way forward.
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Old 5 May 2020, 03:48 (Ref:3974545)   #29
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https://www.motorsport.com/dtm/news/...rting/4788167/

Audi's lack of notice over DTM exit "unsporting" - BMW

BMW board member Klaus Frohlich, "It's not for me to evaluate another company. But from my point of view Audi is undergoing a far-reaching restructuring process.

"Whether it was sustainable to cut off the DTM pillar and whether Formula E is more viable in the long-term to communicate electric mobility - I put a question mark over that."

So Audi quitting from DTM is not really a marketing decision according to BMW. Also BMW reveals that DTM would become full electric in 2025.
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Old 5 May 2020, 07:30 (Ref:3974566)   #30
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I can understand BMW being upset, they want the series to continue, yet Audi have quit just like that. It really has left the series in limbo
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