[BTCC] 2020 the long wait is over, BTCC Rd1/2/3 Donington Pk

[MagicBoy]

Originally Posted by pimmy

When has anyone capable of thinking ever claimed that? There's never been any question about Sutton's ability. Absolutely destroyed Moffat today.

Seem to recall a handful of people making that assertion at the end of last year, mainly as they didn't like the Scooby. You'll see from the posting history that I didn't agree...

He had a mega day, nice to see the Posh Datsun get a thrashing and a good result.

[CroftPilgrim]

Originally Posted by MagicBoy

Seem to recall a handful of people making that assertion at the end of last year, mainly as they didn't like the Scooby. You'll see from the posting history that I didn't agree...

He had a mega day, nice to see the Posh Datsun get a thrashing and a good result.

I think at BMR the truth was you had a good driver in a crap car, or rather a good driver whose aggressive throw it into every corner style meant he could get results out of it. My early take on Sutton in the Infiniti is that its still a case of good driver in a crap car. He was on the edge in every race yesterday and cutting corners at every opportunity. He'll win a fair few races this year, but will also crash out of a few or crash others out.

[ATF]

It was good to have BTCC back. Sutton was on fire, should be a good scrap for the championship this year between him, Turkington and Cammish...maybe Ingram.

ITV did a good job of the coverage given the circumstances, but it was strange how different it felt compared to F1, who all just stood around in the paddock as usual! Even football pundits have been allowed to stand pitch side so you would think they could let Steve Rider and Tim Harvey stand trackside at least.

[steve_r]

My takeaways from this:

1. How good is it to have racing back? Three good races, very close racing throughout.
2. Turkington will take some stopping.
3. Just how good is Sutton?
4. Great to see brand new cars being competitive straight away.
5. Although it would be good to have the missing cars come back, 26 cars is enough.
6. Massive blank space on the side of the Ford?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

already missing Jordan

Neal seemed resigned being no 2 driver

Sutton may win the title unless pegged back

To be honest - at this stage my thoughts on it are:

Not missing Jordan, Plato or M.Jackson. The racing showed that there is still plenty of talent on the grid.
Why get upset about what you don't have, when there is plenty to be happy about what we do have?

I think Team Dynamics have set out from the very start of the season to concentrate 100% on Cammish's chance of a title. Neal as support is part of that. Cammish's start to this season is a lot better than last. (After 3 races last season, Cammish had 6 points in 18th place being 38 points behind the championship leader).

Anyone may win the title unless they are pegged back - and some drivers might win the title even if they are. Why, after just 3 races, do we think the driver in 3rd place in the championship needs to be pegged back?

The second 3-Series is 5th in the championship, the second FK8 is 7th. They are surely higher up the list of cars that need to be pegged back than the second Q50 in 18th.

To be honest - I'm not surprised but still disappointed that followers of BTCC look for negatives in what was a good day's racing. I don't understand the need to drag Sutton down, rather than appreciate the level of talent he clearly has to take a race win, whilst his team mate only picks up a single point all day?

NB. despite the race win, Sutton is behind Butcher in the Ind. title too......

[S griffin]

Great to have the BTCC, had a great day of racing

Sutton was on fire that weekend, brilliant recovery after that R1 off. Turkington and Cammish winning shows they will be in the title fight too and don't rule out Butcher and Tingram too, they looked quick too

The Hyundais were really up there, shame about Proctor's problem in R1. They really have struck gold with that car.

The most improved driver since last season? For me it has to be Sam Osbourne. After the struggles he had with that ancient MG last season, he looked much more at home in that Honda

Morgan looked good in the Merc and Jelley was doing well did he had that R3 spin. Already they look good for the season ahead. And Boardley did alright with that BMW

Shame about that pointless SC in R3

[rdjones]

I have to agree I have now managed to watch all three races and they all really good entertaining races.

I was very impressed with Jelly it looks like they have made a good step forward since last year. I was also impressed with new Hyundai's and I think they will get stronger as the season goes on.

However I do think that title fight is going to be between Turkington/Cammish and Sutton.

Let's see what happens at Brands next weekend.

[Alfisti]

Can anyone shed any light on what went so badly wrong with the AmD Hondas? I was expecting solid top 10's for Jake before the weekend started.

Whoever said the number of cars felt right and they didn't miss JP, AJ etc. - yeah, I had that feeling too. A goid size grid with some quality drivers.

With the grid at current size the cars might all be able to see the start lights at Knockhill too

[sceptic]

Originally Posted by ATF

It was good to have BTCC back. Sutton was on fire, should be a good scrap for the championship this year between him, Turkington and Cammish...maybe Ingram.

ITV did a good job of the coverage given the circumstances, but it was strange how different it felt compared to F1, who all just stood around in the paddock as usual! Even football pundits have been allowed to stand pitch side so you would think they could let Steve Rider and Tim Harvey stand trackside at least.

The difference being that F1 and the Premier League are doing swab tests on everyone in the paddock/stadium twice a week, and temperature checks every day, and everyone is kept in bubbles, so they can't see anyone outside the bubbles without then needing another negative swab test before they re-enter.

The BTCC is doing no testing whatsoever, and people on the paddock were free to come and go as they please. There has been absolutely no effort to stop the spread of the virus within the paddock, and only a limited effort to track who is even there.

[bella]

Originally Posted by sceptic

The BTCC is doing no testing whatsoever, and people on the paddock were free to come and go as they please. There has been absolutely no effort to stop the spread of the virus within the paddock, and only a limited effort to track who is even there.

i'm kind of surprised there's no mandatory fortnightly swab going on in any paddock, but then that'd be an awful lot of people and potentially if things got worse, capacity they may want to free up. we're better off keeping that out of it, in the interests of keeping the sport going for as long as possible.

in europe you're free to come and go as you please from the paddock, once you've handed over a form that basically means you're liable for your own stupidity if you're ill and you turn up rather than the circuit. and they've pointed a temperature wotsit at you. otherwise really... they don't bother either. in british gt we had to submit a list of names in advance and they've returned to paper tickets rather than passes to keep track of who is there which is essentially the same as imola were doing the other week. the onus is strictly on the teams not the organisers.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Can anyone shed any light on what went so badly wrong with the AmD Hondas? I was expecting solid top 10's for Jake before the weekend started.

The team have put together a fairly comprehensive (and frank) assessment of the weekend:

https://www.markblundellmotorsport.c...on-park-opener

In summary:
R1 - JH had an engine problem that needed a change. SO top ten.
R2 - SO had alarm in car that forced retirement. JH retired with engine problem.
R3 - JH had two trips to the pits to check the engine and fix a puncture. SO had a problem with right-rear wheel causing retirement.

It was an unlucky day, but there are signs of promise. SO got a top ten finish, and JH has the 2nd fastest lap in R3.

[Jiiiiiiim]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

The team have put together a fairly comprehensive (and frank) assessment of the weekend:

https://www.markblundellmotorsport.c...on-park-opener

In summary:
R1 - JH had an engine problem that needed a change. SO top ten.
R2 - SO had alarm in car that forced retirement. JH retired with engine problem.
R3 - JH had two trips to the pits to check the engine and fix a puncture. SO had a problem with right-rear wheel causing retirement.

It was an unlucky day, but there are signs of promise. SO got a top ten finish, and JH has the 2nd fastest lap in R3.

Their Pace was there as you say, Hill’s 12 places gained in R2 before his second engine problem and 2nd fastest lap in R3. Osborne showing much better form too!

Swindon have a busy week ahead as Gornall’s engine went the same as Jake’s.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by sceptic

The difference being that F1 and the Premier League are doing swab tests on everyone in the paddock/stadium twice a week, and temperature checks every day, and everyone is kept in bubbles, so they can't see anyone outside the bubbles without then needing another negative swab test before they re-enter.

The BTCC is doing no testing whatsoever, and people on the paddock were free to come and go as they please. There has been absolutely no effort to stop the spread of the virus within the paddock, and only a limited effort to track who is even there.

I don't think that this is particularly fair/true. Teams were only allowed a set number of passes per car (to control numbers in the paddock). All team members attending had to submit a form prior to the event which included their full name, address with email & telephone contact details. Mask wearing was mandatory in all enclosed spaced (garages) and on the grid. Masks were also mandatory on or around the podium celebrations and in any other gatherings. All teams had hand sanitisation stations in their pit garages, and warning signs explaining the procedures that should be followed. It was left as the responsibility of the teams to ensure that the measures were put into place and stern words were had with any team who was found to be not complying. So, I personally think that a great deal of effort had been put into helping to stop the spread of the virus within the paddock, far more than I hear had been done in pubs and other public premises since the easing of the lockdown situation.

[antnee]

I thought the switch of tyres might shake the order up a little but it doesn't seem to have made any difference. Although it might have helped the new Focus and i30 a little.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by antnee

I thought the switch of tyres might shake the order up a little but it doesn't seem to have made any difference. Although it might have helped the new Focus and i30 a little.

The tyres are the same as before.

'The new Goodyear BTCC tyre will retain the same construction as the Sport Maxx during a short-term "transition period", prior to the introduction of hybrid drive.

From the 2021 season onwards, it will develop its own specialised compound.'

[antnee]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

The tyres are the same as before.

'The new Goodyear BTCC tyre will retain the same construction as the Sport Maxx during a short-term "transition period", prior to the introduction of hybrid drive.

From the 2021 season onwards, it will develop its own specialised compound.'

So it has just been a badging exercise for this year then?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by antnee

So it has just been a badging exercise for this year then?

The whole change from Dunlop to Goodyear sponsorship is a badging exercise.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Heavyd123

I noticed ash Sutton kept mentions no bmr engineering in relation to the car. What type of input does bmr have to do with that car?

Sutton said he has been working with the BMR contingent almost weekly in preparation for the season, and that they have carried over certain features they learnt with the Subaru. So I think the BMR engineers are still heavily involved, and could also explain some of the reason Sutton has got to grips with the Infiniti quicker than Moffat.

Sutton took a title in a RWD car, and helped with the development of the 2020 Infiniti from the outset, compared to Moffat's limited experience of an off-pace RWD from 2014.

"People need to remember that these are brand new cars and I think there are only two things carried over from the old car. We’ve taken some things over from the Subaru as well and it’s got me excited."

[Greem]

Had a pretty decent day on Sunday. The BTCC races were really good, the Juniors were fun again, and the Minis were absolutely brilliant. F4 could do with a few more cars, as could the big Ginettas and Porsches.

My anti-magnet worked as always and sent the trouble to colleagues at other parts of the circuit, although we did collect Will Martin's Porsche after the steering broke.

I might, if I can convince the family, go and do Silverstone too. They might have other plans though as I reach a bigger, more rounded age that weekend...

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Heavyd123

I noticed ash Sutton kept mentions no bmr engineering in relation to the car.

Sutton - Aug 2020:
'I know I’ve got the best team behind me with Laser Tools Racing and BMR Engineering. I couldn’t ask for a better outfit.'

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by Greem

Had a pretty decent day on Sunday. The BTCC races were really good, the Juniors were fun again, and the Minis were absolutely brilliant. F4 could do with a few more cars, as could the big Ginettas and Porsches.

My anti-magnet worked as always and sent the trouble to colleagues at other parts of the circuit, although we did collect Will Martin's Porsche after the steering broke.

I might, if I can convince the family, go and do Silverstone too. They might have other plans though as I reach a bigger, more rounded age that weekend...

Congrats on the bigger rounder age!

Hopefully you will be allowed out to deploy the anti-magnet and maybe consume copious quantities of appropriately orange iced cake

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Heavyd123

What type of input does bmr have to do with that car?

Sorry to be repetitive, but in answer to how much BMR does:

'As well as bringing the nucleus of his former BMR crew with him to LTR, Sutton has been reunited with engineer Dan Millard, who ran his Levorg to the title in 2017 and then, with the WSR team, oversaw Colin Turkington's 2019 success with BMW.'

[Craner Curves]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Sorry to be repetitive, but in answer to how much BMR does:

'As well as bringing the nucleus of his former BMR crew with him to LTR, Sutton has been reunited with engineer Dan Millard, who ran his Levorg to the title in 2017 and then, with the WSR team, oversaw Colin Turkington's 2019 success with BMW.'

Ahh, so he's got BMR on his side and Hexathron are with Moffat?

[S griffin]

That’s what happens, usually members of defunct teams are picked up somewhere else pretty quickly

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Craner Curves

Ahh, so he's got BMR on his side and Hexathron are with Moffat?

In January, they talked about Frederico Turrata engineering Moffat's car, which I get the impression has been impacted by COVID. I seem to recall that Hexathron's support has been restricted due to Italian movement restrictions, so Moffat's support has been remote.

https://www.btcc.net/2020/07/31/lase...dy-for-action/

'The car’s been redesigned, a collaboration with the Laser Tools Racing team, BMR Engineering and input from our engineers at Hexathron Racing Systems also.'

All along, they've talked about BMR looking after Sutton's car. When Moffat confirmed Turrata as his engineer, they said that Tony Carrozza was joining the team to work with Sutton, and the addition of Millard seems to have strengthened the position.

It's worth understanding the background of the two engineering arms currently preparing the Q50, to understand why the situation is loaded in Sutton's favour.

Turrata was the man who put the idea of resurrecting the Q50 to the Moffats in the first place, when they were initially only bought for track day use. They had no IP rights to the A-Class, with those held by Ciceley, so their development options were limited.
The Moffats initially approached Warren Scott with a view to getting Moffat into a Subaru a few years ago. When Turrata had convinced them to take on the Q50, agreement was reached between the two teams that Sutton could help with testing at Snetterton. Further discussions, when it became clear that the Subaru's life was coming to an end, led to an agreement that BMR's chief engineer Carrozza would lead the development of the new car in the joint effort, with consultancy from Turrata.
Carrozza had joined BMR following the departure of Faux and Millard at the end of 2017. In March of this year, Sutton is quoted as "All the people working on my car are exactly the same as the last couple of years." We were in a situation where it was very much the existing Laser Tools crew led by Turrata running Moffat's car, and the BMR crew led by Carrozza looking after Sutton.
Moffat Sr confirmed this "We've used some of their engineering staff for the build and development of the car, we're quite happy to support BMR Engineering, and their members are working on Ash's car".

Prior to Jordan's withdrawal, he was due to be working with John Waterman, however with one less car there became a surplus of engineers at WSR. That resulted in Dan Millard departing to join Sutton shortly before the start of the season.

So when you add it all up, you have a car that was designed by a set of engineers who had experience of one of the drivers. That driver was involved with testing and developing the car, and has won the title in RWD before. He has now been joined by the engineer who supported him in his title season.
Whereas on the other side of the garage, you have a car that was new to the driver last season, where the driver has minimal RWD experience. That driver's main engineering support has been restricted to remote consultation.

It's not hard to see why Sutton's performance advantage seems to exist in comparison to Moffat.