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View Poll Results: Who will be the 2019 VASC Series Winning Driver? | |||
#2 Mobil1/Mega, WAU Holden - Scott Pye | 0 | 0% | |
#3 Rabble Club, KR Nissan - Garry Jacobson | 0 | 0% | |
#5 The Bottle O, Tickford Ford - Lee Holdsworth | 0 | 0% | |
#6 Monster Energy, Tickford Ford - Cam Waters | 0 | 0% | |
#7 Kelly Racing, KR Nissan - Andre Heimgartner | 0 | 0% | |
#8 Brad Jones Racing, BJR Holden - Nick Percat | 0 | 0% | |
#9 Penrite Racing, Erebus Holden - David Reynolds | 9 | 23.08% | |
#12 Shell V Power, DJRTP Ford - Fabian Coulthard | 0 | 0% | |
#14 Freightliner, BJR Holden - Tim Slade | 0 | 0% | |
#15 Castrol Racing, KR Nissan - Rick Kelly | 0 | 0% | |
#17 Shell V Power, DJRTP Ford - Scott McLaughlin | 17 | 43.59% | |
#18 Irwin Racing, Chasports Holden - Mark Winterbottom | 1 | 2.56% | |
#19 Truck Assist, Tekno Holden - Jack Le Brocq | 0 | 0% | |
#21 Cooldrive Auto Parts, BJR Holden - Macauley Jones | 0 | 0% | |
#22 Mobil1/Mega, WAU Holden - James Courtney | 0 | 0% | |
#23 Milwaukee Racing, 23Red Ford - Will Davison | 0 | 0% | |
#33 Boost Mobile, GRM Holden - Richie Stanaway | 0 | 0% | |
#34 Boost Mobile, GRM Holden - James Golding | 1 | 2.56% | |
#35 Optus Racing, MSR Holden - Todd Hazelwood | 0 | 0% | |
#55 SuperCheap Auto, Tickford Ford - Chaz Mostert | 2 | 5.13% | |
#78 Harvey Norman, KR Nissan - Simona De Silvestro | 0 | 0% | |
#88 Red Bull Holden, RBHRT Holden - Jamie Whincup | 2 | 5.13% | |
#97 Red Bull Holden, RBHRT Holden - Shane Van Gisbergen | 7 | 17.95% | |
#99 Penrite Racing, Erebus Holden - Anton de Pasquale | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 39. You may not vote on this poll |
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Thread Tools | Display Modes |
26 Mar 2019, 04:22 (Ref:3893395) | #1451 | |
Racer
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 324
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Looks for all the world like Supercars are going to hobble the Mustangs for Tassie.
My question is this: If they want an aero and a COG adjustment why dont they just make them bolt on roof racks and carry some luggage? |
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26 Mar 2019, 04:59 (Ref:3893399) | #1452 | ||
Race Official
1% Club
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 46,693
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Or raise the nose to be the same height as the roadcar?
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__________________
Happy David Thexton Day, 21st March 2003 “I am not uncertain” - Dollar Bill Stern, Billions “Fear stimulates my imagination” - Don Draper, Mad Men “Everybody Lies” - Dr Gregory House, House “Trust But Verify” - Commissioner Frank Reagan, Blue Bloods |
26 Mar 2019, 05:09 (Ref:3893401) | #1453 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,561
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The commodores look more aero to me, they have much more rake on their front windscreen.
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26 Mar 2019, 05:31 (Ref:3893403) | #1454 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,394
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Reading the Speedcafe article. They expect a COG change to the Mustang for this weekend.
The ZB will also get a COG tweak too! Sounds like the poor Nissan was really suffering in this department. Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk |
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What If the Hokey Pokey Really IS What It's All About??????????? |
26 Mar 2019, 06:45 (Ref:3893411) | #1455 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 852
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How long has the Nissan been suffering is the big question - it may have always been at a deficit.
A more thorough homologation process might have seen the Altima more successful, who knows. Maybe Nissan would have continued the factory involvment? |
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26 Mar 2019, 07:19 (Ref:3893413) | #1456 | |
Rookie
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 24
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Probably be happy to, as soon as they car lower the roof to the factory levels too.
Add drag by being forced to raise the roof, reduce added drag by sculpting the nose. Don't make them do one and don't allow them to do the other. The Holden Motorsport machine fanning these flames conveniently neglects to mention that bit though. Rather convenient that CofG tests can be done so simply after all. Has only been an issue since the VF was introduced with its aluminium bonnet etc. Only gets worth investigating properly as soon as Roland is the one at a disadvantage though. |
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26 Mar 2019, 07:37 (Ref:3893417) | #1457 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 6,085
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Im not a fan of Roland or T888 in any way, but to better his team by any legal means is his role, and if that includes whingeing to authorities so be it. It is more a fault of the Ford principals for failing to whinge effectively when they felt hard done by. Yes they may have whinged to no result, but perhaps that is just inefficient or badly worded whingeing on their part. Just a thought
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26 Mar 2019, 08:41 (Ref:3893437) | #1458 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,396
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Spot on.
It's a game of politics. Some are very good at it. |
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26 Mar 2019, 08:54 (Ref:3893440) | #1459 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,069
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Underhanded lobbying for freedoms, combined with foxing to look more hard-done by; was what effectively ended up killing off Group C.
Might this be a case of history repeating itself? |
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26 Mar 2019, 09:31 (Ref:3893446) | #1460 | |
Rookie
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 24
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Ford/FPR attempted to address the issue in 2014 with the homologation of the FGX. Prior to this the category increased the minimum weight with the cotf/FG2 struggling to meet min weights.
Supercars declined, Ford got on with the job. Ford got to play catch up with the Mustang and for the trouble they get to suffer the howls from the other side where they are effectively being called cheats. Solo politics might be fun for some, but like other unmentionable solo activities the enjoyment is vastly enhanced with a willing partner. Holden aren't so much playing politics as they are bringing the sport into disrepute, but hey as long as the referee keeps letting them get away with it. But then they may just end up playing solo again too. |
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26 Mar 2019, 12:27 (Ref:3893476) | #1461 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,375
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Quote:
This year we have complaints about the Moosetang, which I'm assuming is also within the rules but there is a possibility that the rules may get amended to achieve parity. |
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“We’re far from having too much horsepower…[m]y definition of too much horsepower is when all four wheels are spinning in every gear.” ― Mark Donohue |
26 Mar 2019, 13:16 (Ref:3893489) | #1462 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,544
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Quote:
Never mind the Series as we know it is being killed off by non existence of Australian cars IMHO |
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GO Hard or GO Home |
26 Mar 2019, 18:28 (Ref:3893531) | #1463 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 852
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Quote:
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26 Mar 2019, 20:32 (Ref:3893551) | #1464 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,375
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Quote:
In any case, adding new CoG rules IS amending the rules - any addition, change or deletion to the rule book is an amendment. |
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“We’re far from having too much horsepower…[m]y definition of too much horsepower is when all four wheels are spinning in every gear.” ― Mark Donohue |
26 Mar 2019, 21:05 (Ref:3893556) | #1465 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 852
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I'd consider an amendment something minor, wether it be addition, subtraction, whatever.
It's quite disingenuous to suggest the addition of a rule that seems to have such a great effect on performance is "minor". Not to mention the most important fact - the Mustang was signed off by Supercars themselves. Why change anything? Were they wrong the first time? |
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26 Mar 2019, 22:52 (Ref:3893569) | #1466 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 4,375
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__________________
Tranquillity - What happens inside Shane's race car. Chaos - What happens outside Jamie's race car. |
27 Mar 2019, 00:04 (Ref:3893572) | #1467 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,375
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Quote:
Anyway, you have your view and neither of us agree with the other on this point clearly so end of discussion really. Mustang was signed off (as was the current Commodore) but further information from on track performance and input from rival brand teams led to a rules amendment for Commodore and MAY result in a rules amendment that impacts Mustang. Completely professional way for supercars to do the job - no point burying heads in the sand if there's a genuine need to make a change. |
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__________________
“We’re far from having too much horsepower…[m]y definition of too much horsepower is when all four wheels are spinning in every gear.” ― Mark Donohue |
27 Mar 2019, 01:08 (Ref:3893581) | #1468 | |
Racer
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 324
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27 Mar 2019, 01:09 (Ref:3893582) | #1469 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 852
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So the homologation process has stayed the same for so long because??? Anyone with any knowledge has always questioned it's accuracy, yet no change?
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27 Mar 2019, 01:09 (Ref:3893583) | #1470 | |
Racer
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 324
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27 Mar 2019, 02:05 (Ref:3893587) | #1471 | ||||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,375
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Quote:
Quote:
As always though, regardless of what category of motor sport, testing and evaluation provides information but racing can offer up different results that need to be addressed. Even in F1, with the VAST amount of testing, evaluation and process involved this phenomenon is often seen. Even now, after the evaluation, design and testing process, followed by pre-season testing and 1 race so far, there are varying opinions on exactly what impact the new front wing regulations will have on racing - after a a few races, we'll all have a better idea. |
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__________________
“We’re far from having too much horsepower…[m]y definition of too much horsepower is when all four wheels are spinning in every gear.” ― Mark Donohue |
27 Mar 2019, 03:04 (Ref:3893590) | #1472 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 324
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Quote:
The COG and aero are different kettles containing different fish. Clearly the Commodore had an aero advantage all last year. Apparently that was ok because Ford didnt do a good enough job. So Ford have now improved things (Clearly their CFD is better than Nick Wirth's, not that I have had any faith in him since the Simtek days) and suddenly we have parity issues. So what changed from last year to this? As for the COG the bulk of the chassis are Falcon chassis anyway. So what has changed? Answer - Holden are no longer winning. |
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27 Mar 2019, 03:08 (Ref:3893591) | #1473 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,540
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The ZB had a key point of difference in being given an exemption to run composite upper body structure because ostensibly steel panels were not available, and the teams weren't told "go see a fabricator". Does the Mustang have a similar issue? On RPM, Mr Tander speculated it might be due to the Mustang's smaller coupe greenhouse/roof.
I can't imagine that determining how a CoG height would achieved, or enforcing it, would be easy. |
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27 Mar 2019, 03:22 (Ref:3893593) | #1474 | |||
Race Official
1% Club
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 46,693
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Quote:
Socialism, in a motor racing parlance... |
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__________________
Happy David Thexton Day, 21st March 2003 “I am not uncertain” - Dollar Bill Stern, Billions “Fear stimulates my imagination” - Don Draper, Mad Men “Everybody Lies” - Dr Gregory House, House “Trust But Verify” - Commissioner Frank Reagan, Blue Bloods |
27 Mar 2019, 03:29 (Ref:3893594) | #1475 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 652
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The chassis is exactly the same no matter if you are a Nissan, FG, Mustang or ZB as it's a controlled chassis. What is different are the things that getting added... You do the math’s, is 4 doors heavier than 2 doors?
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