'10 LMS Round 2 • Spa-Francorchamps • May 7th-9th

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by henk4

Revealing by the way is also page 80, which gives the best sector times during the race, whereby two peugeots were faster in ALL three sectors.

The 3 Audis were faster in sector 3?!

I also believe some of the sector times were lost during the power outage. Look at the ideal lap (sum of best sector times) of the #7 Audi: 2:01.495. Almost .7 sec slower than the actual best lap time of car: 2:00.833.

[henk4]

anyway, this is how we saw most of the weekend

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/event...a-1000-km.html

[henk4]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

The 3 Audis were faster in sector 3?!

I also believe some of the sector times were lost during the power outage. Look at the ideal lap (sum of best sector times) of the #7 Audi: 2:01.495. Almost .7 sec slower than the actual best lap time of car: 2:00.833.

right, I misread that, but by a mere 0.3 of a second...but from the data that we have, it shows that in sector one and two the pugs were fastest. Interesting anomaly regarding the ideal and the best lap of #7. Can you trace which lap that was?

Regarding the team effort, the number 3 and 1 spent less time in the pits than the two Audis so the race was not only won on the track. (page 127).

[chernaudi]

Let's just call it for what it is: Spa is inconclusive as to who's faster, esepcially at Le Mans. Audi ran a LM-spec downforce package that cost them in sector 2(which comprises at least half of the lap), but were at times significantly faster in sectors 1/3. That and having better racecraft kept the #7 in contention until the last few minutes. However, that low downforce package cost them as far as keeping warm slicks on the cars like the HD 908s could.

Peugeot came with a high downforce setting with the aim to win, knowing that the HD package would benefit them. And Audi does have a high downforce package for the new R15 at least partially in existance, and strangely they used it in practice for Paul Ricard: http://www.fourtitude.com/gallery/ga...&dispsize=1024

http://www.fourtitude.com/gallery/ga...&dispsize=1024

http://www.fourtitude.com/gallery/ga...&dispsize=1024

Why they didn't run their cars in at least that configuration is beyond me. However, the more I think about it, it could be typical Audi. Words and phrases such as "sandbagging", "holding their cards to their chest", and "mind games" come to mind. Maybe Audi just wanted to show Peugeot that in low downforce trim that they believe that the R15 is the equal of the 908's LD trim. As far as handling goes, in LD trim, the R15 at Paul Ricard seemed to have the edge over the Oreca 908, as set up with factory assistance(it also seems that Peugeot is taking Oreca more seriously than Pescarolo last year), as the speed gap on the mistral wasn't as big as it often was at Spa, where the Audi and Pug ran different areo setups.

However, with the cars in different specs and seeminlgy different game plans, it's hard to say, in Audi's words, "where they stand" as far as Audi and Peugeot go, and without the LM test day, we'll probably be in the dark for the next five weeks.

One thing though that hasn't been talked about in this thread so far is the ugly part of things for Peugeot: Oreca's disasterous race. It has no real impact on the LM side of things. But one also has to remember that Oreca is Peugeot's back-door factory effort for the LMS championship, with Allan and Dindo winning Paul Ricard and finishing 3rd at Spa, they have the lead in the drivers' championship, and with Peugeot Sport not submitting an full season entry, Audi and Joest have the lead in the manufacturers' and teams' championships.

With Oreca's DNF at Spa and making it no where near 70%, they scored no points in any championship. This leaves the LMS title hunt wide open, unless Audi enter Allan and Dindo in more LMS races. Audi already have at least 3 planned(Paul Ricard, Spa, and Silverstone--the LMIC opener). With their big lead in the championship and Joest registered as a full season entry, Audi have basically a one race advantage over Oreca in the championship tables. Does one think that Audi may take advantage and enter Algarve and/or Hungaroring under the pretense of "testing for the LMIC" while using it as a back-door attempt at stealing the LMS title?

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by henk4

Regarding the team effort, the number 3 and 1 spent less time in the pits than the two Audis so the race was not only won on the track. (page 127).

Of course, the Audi #7 did an extra pit stop at the end to put on intermediates and the #9 was held up 2 minutes because of the red light in the pit lane.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

And Audi does have a high downforce package for the new R15 at least partially in existance, and strangely they used it in practice for Paul Ricard:

Why they didn't run their cars in at least that configuration is beyond me.

Spare parts? Perhaps they did not want to build multiple LD noses and engine covers for 3 cars...

[henk4]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Why they didn't run their cars in at least that configuration is beyond me. However, the more I think about it, it could be typical Audi. Words and phrases such as "sandbagging", "holding their cards to their chest", and "mind games" come to mind. Maybe Audi just wanted to show Peugeot that in low downforce trim that they believe that the R15 is the equal of the 908's LD trim.

Or just plain arrogance, that in case they would have won, they could have said, look, we can even beat the fully prepared Pugs on a high downforce track, using LM specs...
I'll be very curious to see how fast the pugs will be with the LM package. They really found something this year, as the Pug's pole time was four seconds quicker than last year, even with the increased restrictions.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Of course, the Audi #7 did an extra pit stop at the end to put on intermediates and the #9 was held up 2 minutes because of the red light in the pit lane.

the number 7 stop was a (wrong) team decision and even if you subtract two minutes for the number 9, it has still used more time than the first two Pugs...

[henk4]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Spare parts? Perhaps they did not want to build multiple LD noses and engine covers for 3 cars...

yep, Audi is really a team that runs on a shoestring......

[chernaudi]

The parts in the photos(dive planes and tail gurneys) are tack-on parts that mostly carried over from the '09 R15.

And it seemed that Audi modifed their cars for Spa in a strange way in additon to the low downforce they ran-it seems that the inner head light(the one that points outboard of the car) has some kind of divider piece mounted in front of it-different light or what's going on there?

[henk4]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

The parts in the photos(dive planes and tail gurneys) are tack-on parts that mostly carried over from the '09 R15.

And it seemed that Audi modifed their cars for Spa in a strange way in additon to the low downforce they ran-it seems that the inner head light(the one that points outboard of the car) has some kind of divider piece mounted in front of it-different light or what's going on there?

what I further noticed was that the Audis were quity itchy through the chicane before start finish, while the Pugs seemed to negotiate that section much more stable.
Checking my pictures, I can only see fully flush headlights, with no divider pieces.

[zac510]

Couple of pictures from the weekend:

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by Purist

The statement was about the car itself. As such, team errors, driver difficulties, etc are irrelevant.

In 2007 Peugeot lost time during driver changes because the car itself has a roof. The problem in the wet was a property of the car (difficulties to set up it up properly) and not so much driver issues. You might also wonder whether the multiple crashes in the early days perhaps were related to the car's handling at the limit...

[AndrewF31]

Originally Posted by zac510

Couple of pictures from the weekend:

Thanks! Last photo is really nice.

[chernaudi]

Originally Posted by henk4

what I further noticed was that the Audis were quity itchy through the chicane before start finish, while the Pugs seemed to negotiate that section much more stable.
Checking my pictures, I can only see fully flush headlights, with no divider pieces.

The inboard light(the one that points towards the outside of the car) seems to be split and has a carbon divider mounted between the two parts of it, and it's in the bin under the lexan cover, not on the cover itself.

[WMUCarGuy]

I just noticed that the Rebellion Lolas are now using a side exiting exhaust rather than the snorkel type they used Paul Ricard.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

In 2007 Peugeot lost time during driver changes because the car itself has a roof.

the 2008, 2009 and 2010 car still has a roof...... only now they don't loose time any more.....so intrinsically the car was NOT the problem.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by henk4

the 2008, 2009 and 2010 car still has a roof...... only now they don't loose time any more.....so intrinsically the car was NOT the problem.

With a little help from ACO

[henk4]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

With a little help from ACO

I am trying hard to think what you could mean by that....the reduction of the number of wheel keys???

[old man]

Originally Posted by 911targa

ford finished 1-2-3 in GT1class,both aston GT cars came back with DNF,i wont be surprise if they do it again at LM,but i will be surprise if GT1winner do more laps than GT2winner after 24h.

As a former Student Apprentice with Aston in the DB days I was very sorry to see them have problems again. Fast but fragile perhaps but the GT2 failures at P Ricard and Spa were different and should be solveable. That car's fastest lap was quicker than all GT2s except the BMW that was penalised for not respecting the circuit boundaries, 4 tenths quicker than the fastest Porsche and all the Ferraris and some of the GT1s so the speed is there if they can find the reliabilty

[cdsvg]

Originally Posted by henk4

I am trying hard to think what you could mean by that....the reduction of the number of wheel keys???

Because of the change to allow only 1 wheel gun - more time in which to do the driver change, which helped Peugeot.

I was watching the race-rally stream and it worked flawlessly through the race, apart from the power cut. I remember doing the same thing as far back as 08. Why is it that the ACO can't do this themselves, with RLM commentary, if these guys can do it for free without any problems?

[Dani Filth]

stream worked ok .. but quality was a bit low(not a big fan of silverlight) .. at least compared to the GT1 stream

[GT6]

The problem with the free streaming was that the RLM commentary was often ahead of the pictures, several times I would hear about an incident and then see it several minutes later.

[Tom87]

Originally Posted by GT6

The problem with the free streaming was that the RLM commentary was often ahead of the pictures, several times I would hear about an incident and then see it several minutes later.

That was ideal for me - I was revising for an exam, so I just switched to the live stream everytime I heard Hindy get excited and then watch a 'replay' of the action!

Stream was absolutely fine for me, more than adequate for a freebie, I echo the sentiment that it would be fantastic if we had the same for each race.

[zac510]

Originally Posted by cdsavage

Why is it that the ACO can't do this themselves, with RLM commentary, if these guys can do it for free without any problems?

It undercuts MotorsTV and their attempts to draw an audience/advertise then doesn't it?