[Team] Ferrari: in F1

[S griffin]

Vettel never got to grips with that season’s RBR and also missed on the occasions the RBR could win. Ricciardo could definitely win in the right car

[wnut]

Originally Posted by dsg

But if I'm following what you say here, Vettel was the main reason they got close, but Ricciardo destroyed Vettel when they were teammates (without breaking a sweat) and if Ricciardo is a number 2 driver then it logically follows that if Ferrari employ Ricciardo as number 2 he will win them the championship.

Vettel wanted to go to Ferrari, and he had an escape clause in his contract if his results were not in the top 5 (I think) in the championship, he wasn't and he went to Ferrari for an increase in salary of $60 million.
Not his finest hour, but then you should not force your employees into stupid situations with their contracts.

[Greem]

Arribabene out, replaced by Binotto

[S griffin]

Did not see that coming, but no real surprise there. Arrivabene hasn’t exactly set the world alight in his time as manager

[E.B]

The gossip started well before Christmas when it was suggested Arrivabene was off to run Juventus. The only person who has said it wasnt happening was Arrivabene himself. It does not surprise me. It seems that the falling away from being a challenger lacklustre performances by lead driver and pitlane both, and another title free year was Arrivabene's downfall. The new Chairman seems to be ruffling a few feathers.
TBH it is looking like a year of Ferrari political nonsense and in house bickering.... and it will be worse if Leclerc has the pace to match Vettel as many seem to anticipate. That will put Vettel's nose out of joint and with it his in house supporters.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Did not see that coming, but no real surprise there. Arrivabene hasn’t exactly set the world alight in his time as manager

Well, see this from wnut on 3rd December:

Originally Posted by wnut

The problem with Ferrari for 2019.

Vettel v Leclerc

and

Arrivabene v Binotto the Ferrari Technical Director who was apparently going to be promoted to team Principle at the end of 2018 before the death of Sergio Marchionne.

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/n...power-struggle

[Cinghio44]

Well, I'm not surprised. It was probably a decision already taken by Sergio Marchionne and there were rumors about it for a long time. Arrivabene was not the right person in that place.

The most important thing is that the Arrivabene's "protege" named Seb Vettel has no more excuses. He pointed his finger over the competitiveness of the Ferrari and so inderectly toward Binotto, I think now it's the time of the truth. And would bet that it will finish like of his last year in RB when Ricciardo destroyed him on track...

Now Binotto at the head of the team, finally someone who deserves it. Surely this will be not an easy year, Leclerc and Vettel seems to be different as driving style, so to produce a car that will be okay for both will be a tough job. Let's see what this year can brings...

[steve_r]

Originally Posted by Greem

Arribabene out, replaced by Binotto

We will all miss his shiny happy persona and witty banter.

[Richard C]

Weird side topic, but I wonder if his wife (Stefania Bocchi) will remain with the team? She was Kimi's press officer. With the exit of both Kimi and Arrivabene does she have place? Too awkward to stay? I think she has been with the team for a long time. Might she move to Sauber to follow Kimi?

Look at 7:20 in this interview with her...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-J2Cgt1k1s

Richard

[Skam85]

Kimi's press officer. Talk about a dream job!

[sizzle]

Originally Posted by steve_r

We will all miss his shiny happy persona and witty banter.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Cinghio44

Well, I'm not surprised. It was probably a decision already taken by Sergio Marchionne and there were rumors about it for a long time. Arrivabene was not the right person in that place.

The most important thing is that the Arrivabene's "protege" named Seb Vettel has no more excuses. He pointed his finger over the competitiveness of the Ferrari and so inderectly toward Binotto, I think now it's the time of the truth. And would bet that it will finish like of his last year in RB when Ricciardo destroyed him on track...

Now Binotto at the head of the team, finally someone who deserves it. Surely this will be not an easy year, Leclerc and Vettel seems to be different as driving style, so to produce a car that will be okay for both will be a tough job. Let's see what this year can brings...

I don't think characterizing Vettel as Arrivabene's "protégé" is at all accurate, Mattiacci and Marchionne's certainly.

If you look at the dates of tenure of the various Ferrari team principals, it is clear that Mattiacci is the person who went out and signed Vettel, and Vettel’s signing with Ferrari on 20 November 2014 pre-dated Arrivabene’s appointment on 24 November 2014.
I think that Sergio Marchionne was also intimately involved in the Vettel deal, Mattiacci’s move within the group being delayed until Vettel was signed. On Arrivabene’s appointment, Marchionne was then l responsible for keeping the peace between Vettel and Arrivabene, and apparently Binotto as well.
Following Marchionne’s death the power struggle surfaced with the signing of LeClerc when it was well known that Vettel wished to have Kimi continue, and the dramatic fall off in Ferrari’s performance. Clearly the Ferrari board has identified that the team was operationally weak in 2018 and addressed the problem, good decision in my opinion.
Ferrari Team Principal tenures.
Domenicali 12 November 2007 to 14 April 2014
Mattiacci 14 April 2014 to 24 November 2014
Arrivabene 24 November 2014 to 7 January 2019
Binotto 7 January 2019 - ?
Vettel rumoured to have signed a pre-contract 27 May 2014
Vettel signs contract with Ferrari 20 November 2014

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Weird side topic, but I wonder if his wife (Stefania Bocchi) will remain with the team? She was Kimi's press officer. With the exit of both Kimi and Arrivabene does she have place? Too awkward to stay? I think she has been with the team for a long time. Might she move to Sauber to follow Kimi?

Look at 7:20 in this interview with her...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-J2Cgt1k1s

Richard

It does look like it will be a bit awkward for her at Ferrari now.
Will be interesting to see if Kimi takes her with him, history there with her husband too, not Kimi's first choice to be dumped I am sure.
Maybe she dumps Arrivabene!

[S griffin]

I find her quite a fascinating character. I first heard of her when the BBC interviewed her at 2009 Italian GP

[Cinghio44]

Originally Posted by wnut

I don't think characterizing Vettel as Arrivabene's "protégé" is at all accurate, Mattiacci and Marchionne's certainly.

If you look at the dates of tenure of the various Ferrari team principals, it is clear that Mattiacci is the person who went out and signed Vettel, and Vettel’s signing with Ferrari on 20 November 2014 pre-dated Arrivabene’s appointment on 24 November 2014.
I think that Sergio Marchionne was also intimately involved in the Vettel deal, Mattiacci’s move within the group being delayed until Vettel was signed. On Arrivabene’s appointment, Marchionne was then l responsible for keeping the peace between Vettel and Arrivabene, and apparently Binotto as well.
Following Marchionne’s death the power struggle surfaced with the signing of LeClerc when it was well known that Vettel wished to have Kimi continue, and the dramatic fall off in Ferrari’s performance. Clearly the Ferrari board has identified that the team was operationally weak in 2018 and addressed the problem, good decision in my opinion.
Ferrari Team Principal tenures.
Domenicali 12 November 2007 to 14 April 2014
Mattiacci 14 April 2014 to 24 November 2014
Arrivabene 24 November 2014 to 7 January 2019
Binotto 7 January 2019 - ?
Vettel rumoured to have signed a pre-contract 27 May 2014
Vettel signs contract with Ferrari 20 November 2014

Vettel maybe wasn't the choice of Arrivabene but surely they have some business together in all this years

What I criticize of Arrivabene was the over protection of the kid (he needs attention) but in doing this, in my opinion, he doesn't do the job for Ferrari. I have a lot of respect for Kimi and I think that he is still a great driver (if not penalized in strategy) but Ferrari needed someone potentially more capable of both driver. Kimi without restriction was much better that Vettel in the middle end part of 2018 championship. That add me more doubts over the talent of the german.

The impression is that the Ferrari could take Ricciardo but all was blocked by someone. Also the impression was that Marchionne didn't see anymore Vettel as a potential champion for Ferrari. The only one who was protecting him and his business in the Scuderia, for me was Arrivabene without any doubt. And Leclerc wasn't a choice of Arri because he wanted Kimi onboard again in Ferrari...

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Cinghio44

Vettel maybe wasn't the choice of Arrivabene but surely they have some business together in all this years

What I criticize of Arrivabene was the over protection of the kid (he needs attention) but in doing this, in my opinion, he doesn't do the job for Ferrari. I have a lot of respect for Kimi and I think that he is still a great driver (if not penalized in strategy) but Ferrari needed someone potentially more capable of both driver. Kimi without restriction was much better that Vettel in the middle end part of 2018 championship. That add me more doubts over the talent of the german.

The impression is that the Ferrari could take Ricciardo but all was blocked by someone. Also the impression was that Marchionne didn't see anymore Vettel as a potential champion for Ferrari. The only one who was protecting him and his business in the Scuderia, for me was Arrivabene without any doubt. And Leclerc wasn't a choice of Arri because he wanted Kimi onboard again in Ferrari...

I was always left with the impression that Vettel and Arrivabene did not get on at all, and Marchionne kept the peace.
Leclerc seemed to have a lot of backing in Ferrari, I have heard him described as Marchionne's protégé, so I think the reason Ricciardo was not chosen was because Leclerc was already the chosen candidate, and I think that Kimi was let go early so that Arrivabene could prove a point to Vettel.
It will be interesting to see how Binotto and Vettel get on, and how Ferrari does with the new regime and a new driver in the mix.

[wnut]

This article in Motorsport magazine by Mark Hughes seems to provide a good summary of Arrivabene's leadership.

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/o...riends-ferrari

"This is the man who a couple of years ago broke his usual vow of not talking to the cameras – to say that Vettel should stop trying to run the team and concentrate instead on justifying his position as a driver. He maybe took that as man management skills. Instead it lost him the respect of one of the biggest assets at his disposal."

"So we eventually arrived at the position in 2018 where the worst race team was running the best car. It wasn’t the worst race team because of the people within it – but because of how it was being led. This also seeped through to the mindset of its lead driver."
"Arrivabene’s job probably wasn’t advertised but if it had been it should have included this line: Intimidation and one-dimensional thinking would debar the applicant."

From the article it would also appear that Binotto is an excellent leader:

"As Arrivabene ran the race team through a culture of intimidation and fear, his opposite number in the technical group Mattia Binotto had convinced Marchionne of how the removal of fear could unleash much of the creative talent of the people within. Marchionne acted upon the suggestion and applied management science to making it happen – lo and behold Ferrari became the most creative technical group on the grid after years of just following the lead of others."

[S griffin]

Binotto needs to sort the team out to make sure it doesn't repeat the mistakes of the past couple of seasons

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

Alonso should have won in 2012 and Ricciardo is a number 2 driver at best.

The cognitive dissonance defies belief!

If Ricciardo is a number 2 driver, I suppose that makes Vettel, who is slower than Ricciardo, a number 3 driver.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

Vettel was dreadful that year.

Sure was! Vettel was dreadful in 2018 too.

Ferrari really need a better driver, and Leclerc should be the one.

The question is who will replace Vettel at Ferrari in 2020, after Vettel is easily beaten by Leclerc and Vettel's position is untenable? Alonso on a one-year deal may be a good choice, until Verstappen can be secured in 2021.

Originally Posted by Cinghio44

Leclerc and Vettel seems to be different as driving style, so to produce a car that will be okay for both will be a tough job. Let's see what this year can brings...

That's easy. Make sure to tune the car to Leclerc's preference!

Originally Posted by Cinghio44

The impression is that the Ferrari could take Ricciardo but all was blocked by someone.

While it is critical to bring Leclerc to Ferrari, they could have put Leclerc at Sauber again and brought him to Ferrari to partner Ricciardo in 2020.

By not signing Ricciardo, they will have to sniff around for another driver to be the medium-to-long term replacement of Vettel and partner of Leclerc. Possibly making a messy stopgap year in 2020 (enter Alonso), until the others are off contract in 2021. Very suboptimal.

[S griffin]

Personally I would like to see Ricciardo in a car capable of winning the title. I reckon he could do it

[Casper]

Originally Posted by wnut

This article in Motorsport magazine by Mark Hughes seems to provide a good summary of Arrivabene's leadership.

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/o...riends-ferrari

"This is the man who a couple of years ago broke his usual vow of not talking to the cameras – to say that Vettel should stop trying to run the team and concentrate instead on justifying his position as a driver. He maybe took that as man management skills. Instead it lost him the respect of one of the biggest assets at his disposal."

"So we eventually arrived at the position in 2018 where the worst race team was running the best car. It wasn’t the worst race team because of the people within it – but because of how it was being led. This also seeped through to the mindset of its lead driver."
"Arrivabene’s job probably wasn’t advertised but if it had been it should have included this line: Intimidation and one-dimensional thinking would debar the applicant."

From the article it would also appear that Binotto is an excellent leader:

"As Arrivabene ran the race team through a culture of intimidation and fear, his opposite number in the technical group Mattia Binotto had convinced Marchionne of how the removal of fear could unleash much of the creative talent of the people within. Marchionne acted upon the suggestion and applied management science to making it happen – lo and behold Ferrari became the most creative technical group on the grid after years of just following the lead of others."

I wrote some years ago that Ferrari had confusion as a key part of their DNA. It is only when foreigners run the team that it achieves success.

[S griffin]

Agreed. Under Todt/Byrne/Brawn they were well organised. Now since then they've gone back tot the traditional Ferrari way

[Cinghio44]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Agreed. Under Todt/Byrne/Brawn they were well organised. Now since then they've gone back tot the traditional Ferrari way

The problem is to find the right leader, a person who take the right decisions for the Scuderia! It seems nowadays there are very few people like this in F1...

[Akrapovic]

I've become quite used to people downplaying Vettels achievements, however when it goes as far as suggesting the replacement is Fernando Alonso, we're into the land of fiction. You don't exactly have to be old to remember the pre-Mercedes domination era, and what happened when Fernando drove red cars.

The things that Vettel is being criticised (rightly) for, such as squandering points leads, not being on the ball etc - these are all things that were complained about when Alonso drove a red car as well. Losing a championship being stuck behind Petrov. Throwing away an almost 40 point championship lead. When your title contender is crippled with a damaged car, not even putting yourself in a position to take advantage of that. These are things that if you asked people "Which Ferrari did this?", then most would now say Vettel but were actually Fernando.

Ferrari (and their drivers) have had a problem with sealing the deal since the Schumacher days ended. There has been one exception - when McLaren imploded (ironically, with Fernando playing a big part in it), and Kimi took the win - but since then, none of the drivers have managed to seal the deal, and Fernandos bad years were no better than Vettels bad years.

Suggesting that Fernando should replace Vettel to help take a title is like suggesting replacing Verstappen with Maldonado because Max crashes too much.