'09 ALMS Round 2 • St. Pete April 3-4

[HORNDAWG]

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Downtown Street Course, St. Petersburg, FL, USA. April 3 - April 4, 2009
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Schedule
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Entry List
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Track Map
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Timing & Scoring
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Hindy/Radio
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IMSA Site
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Spotters Guide
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Live "Q"ing Stream
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Satellite
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Weather
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World Times


L.P.

[The359]

Entry list isn't out yet, right? Your link doesn't work and IMSA's website doesn't have one that I can find.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by The359

Entry list isn't out yet, right? Your link doesn't work and IMSA's website doesn't have one that I can find.

Zactly.


L.P.

[dxk1]

Originally Posted by The359

Entry list isn't out yet, right? Your link doesn't work and IMSA's website doesn't have one that I can find.

Probably because it is so pathetic they are too embarrassed to release it.

DK

[joeb]

Originally Posted by dxk1

Probably because it is so pathetic they are too embarrassed to release it.

DK

Maybe they are waiting for Vici to add a few more cars....

[cmk]

Originally Posted by dxk1

Probably because it is so pathetic they are too embarrassed to release it.

DK

If you've read Gordon Kirby's interview with Scott Atherton, they know exactly how pathetic it will be but he was definitely not embarrassed enough to sugar-coat it. It is the way it is, and they are doing their best to make the way it is as good as possible.

[dxk1]

Originally Posted by cmk

If you've read Gordon Kirby's interview with Scott Atherton, they know exactly how pathetic it will be but he was definitely not embarrassed enough to sugar-coat it. It is the way it is, and they are doing their best to make the way it is as good as possible.

I understand that and I agree I'm being a little harsh. I guess we just got spoiled with the last few years and we're going to miss that. Hopefully, things will turn around soon.

DK

[dxk1]

Originally Posted by The359

Entry list isn't out yet, right? Your link doesn't work and IMSA's website doesn't have one that I can find.

Apparently it is up now:

http://www.americanlemans.com/images...eteEntries.pdf

with only 16 cars on it! 3 P1s, 3P2s and the rest GT2s!

This must rank as the smallest field ever in ALMS!

DK

[Dead-Eye]

Two cars for PTG? Was that known before?

[The359]

2nd Panoz! Hopefully this is a boost brought on by their Sebring podium.

No VICI though, no 2nd Risi, and on LG Corvette.

Why is van Overbeek not in the Flying Lizard Porsche?

[Canada ALMS fan]

Originally Posted by Dead-Eye

Two cars for PTG? Was that known before?

That must be what Atherton meant when he said we would see existing teams add additional cars, I wonder if the Lizards and Risi will step up too? Between the second Esperante and talk of a new LMP1 Panoz, it appears Don is keen on doing all he can to help his series out. I was just flipping through my 2008 ALMS yearbook and the average grid size was around 30 cars, oh what a difference a year makes.

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by joeb

Maybe they are waiting for Vici to add a few more cars....

Oh yeah ..... and dont forget ECO racing's Radical SR9 diesel too .

I would have thought this would be a brilliant idea for a European GT1 team to do the rest of the ALMS , their sure to win ..... Konrad could have won the championship with a semi decent S7R !!!

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Dead-Eye

Two cars for PTG? Was that known before?

Ryan Phinney drove a few races in Grand Am last year for Matt Conolly. If I remember correctly they scored at least one podium with the old Pontiac GTO. That kid is really quick, good for him!

[The359]

By my count, no ALMS race has had this low a car count, although the last two ELMS races had counts of 13 and 14.

I don't believe there's even been an ALMS race under 20 entries.

[tkelland]

I thought I had heard something to the affect that they were trying to allow cars to run without the proper ac units to help car counts. If that happens, maybe a few of the old porsches can come play.

[Dead-Eye]

It would have been the case for VICI had they showed up...

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Dead-Eye

Two cars for PTG? Was that known before?

In the past they traveled with two cars but raced one. I wonder if the 2nd car has the updates that PTG put on last year.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Dead-Eye

It would have been the case for VICI had they showed up...

I can't find the link now, but Vici is waiting on new 2009 chassis. If I remember the article I think it said plural. But even in the wait they have the 2008 chassis that could be run if the rules were relaxed.

[cmk]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

That must be what Atherton meant when he said we would see existing teams add additional cars, I wonder if the Lizards and Risi will step up too? Between the second Esperante and talk of a new LMP1 Panoz, it appears Don is keen on doing all he can to help his series out. I was just flipping through my 2008 ALMS yearbook and the average grid size was around 30 cars, oh what a difference a year makes.

I wonder how much the series is able to do fiscally to aid teams to bring extra cars. Atherton definitely discussed encouraging teams to use economies of scale to run extra cars for the health of the series, and indicated that teams responded. I hope that the series has not had to resort to 'encouraging' in the Tony George model.

I think that they recognize that this is a very tough year for their product in North America, and probably for racing on the continent as a whole. I think just keeping the series stable this year is a worthy goal, and for now they seem to be succeeding.

Great to see Ryan Phinney in the ALMS, too. That kid hustled the Matt Connelly Pontiac GTO-R around in GARRA last year far far quicker than a car of its age and low operating budget had any right to go.

[Breitling24]

Originally Posted by The359

Why is van Overbeek not in the Flying Lizard Porsche?

I noticed that, too. I wonder if they're doing what they did two (?) seasons ago, going every other race between Seth and Lonnie? Maybe this season, splitting between Seth and Johannes. Mmmmm...

[Canada ALMS fan]

Originally Posted by cmk

I wonder how much the series is able to do fiscally to aid teams to bring extra cars. Atherton definitely discussed encouraging teams to use economies of scale to run extra cars for the health of the series, and indicated that teams responded. I hope that the series has not had to resort to 'encouraging' in the Tony George model.

I think that they recognize that this is a very tough year for their product in North America, and probably for racing on the continent as a whole. I think just keeping the series stable this year is a worthy goal, and for now they seem to be succeeding.

More GT cars are good, but they desperately need a couple of prototypes. I think Dr. Panoz is putting his money where his mouth is with the second Esperante. Even if he has no intentions of building an LMP car, his talk of it may calm others regarding the stability of the series... Atherton said the series is cash flow positive, so it is in no imminent danger of collapse.

[Dauer 962]

Originally Posted by joeb

I can't find the link now, but Vici is waiting on new 2009 chassis. If I remember the article I think it said plural. But even in the wait they have the 2008 chassis that could be run if the rules were relaxed.

The issue with Vici is definitely not depending on the availability of any car……

[Flyin Ryan]

Originally Posted by cmk

I wonder how much the series is able to do fiscally to aid teams to bring extra cars.

More purse money (or entrant start money).

Atherton definitely discussed encouraging teams to use economies of scale to run extra cars for the health of the series, and indicated that teams responded. I hope that the series has not had to resort to 'encouraging' in the Tony George model.

Why not? If they're cash-flow positive, they definitely have a little bit of money to burn, and they give out next-to-zero purse money to start with. How many teams at Sebring received enough money from the organizers to even cover their tire bill? I'm not saying go bankrupt, just aim to break even on the year, and if you help participants financially, they're certain to be "long-term grateful". I know this is racing and it's full of slimeballs, but a little TLC can go a long way with good guys in the sport and "healthy business relationships".

The complete lack of purse money has always been one of my long-time beefs with sportscar racing - whether it's IMSA/ALMS, ACO, PSCR, USRRC, or GARRA, and I will never understand people that think purse money is irrelevant toward the costs of competing, it's just an incredibly naive business model. Yes, I understand that the costs can't be completely covered due to the endurance nature of the event, but they can definitely help, and because they don't is one reason why car counts are going to drop down to less entrants in a 4-class race than the 1-class race held the next day St. Petersburg and Long Beach weekends. There is no semblance of a respectable business model that makes any sense unless you are a manufacturer treating the sport as one big marketing exercise, or you are just going to field a car for a couple millionaires racing for fun.

Why does everyone think Kevin Buckler is racing David Gilliland in NASCAR and not a Porsche 911 at Sebring or St. Petersburg after all? He actually has a shot at covering the costs of racing in the former I imagine is one reason.

This is Robin Miller's article from February 2007 where I took out the bits talking about sportscars. I imagine not much has changed in two years.

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...l_inequalities

But the bottom line is even sadder in sports cars.

The Grand Am series was founded and funded by NASCAR but you won't confuse it with the stock car division.

Other than the Rolex 24 Hours (which paid $100,000 to win last month), a victory in Jim France's series is worth a piddly $25,000 (unless you're not a member of the Pacesetter's Club and then it only pays $15,000).

There's quite a dropoff in the Daytona Prototypes at the big race since second is worth $35,000 and fifth brings in $10,000. "Not enough to pay the hotel bill," said one owner.

Chip Ganassi, whose budget with sponsor Telmex and Carlos Slim's deep pockets is thought to be in the $4 million range, raked in a whopping $150,000 in purse money last year for taking the 14-race team title.

In the more sophisticated American Le Mans Series, where slick cars like the Audi and Porsche are seven-figure
creations, the purses are also seven figures but only if you count cents.

The winner of this month's Mobil 1 12 Hours of Sebring classic will win $24,000 or, to be more precise, about $2,000 an hour which, ironically, is the going rate at a wind tunnel.

Honda is battling Porsche this season in LMP2 and they'll spend more on hospitality than their three-team lineup can earn.

ALMS also has a unique pay scale. If you are a full factory team, you are not eligible for prize money and, in 2005 at Sebring, 22 of the 38 starters got zero prize money.

My beloved USAC midget racing is also a financial train wreck. Engines can cost as much as $45,000 yet the purses have hardly increased since the 1970s and the winner is lucky to get $1,500 most nights.

At least you can go outlaw sprint car racing in Indiana for a reasonable amount of money and have a shot to win $4,000.

Grand Am sports a ton of good drivers yet doesn't draw much of a crowd but it does have the France faction to keep things afloat while ALMS suddenly has some muscle from manufacturers and some momentum. But neither sports car series makes financial sense at the moment and drivers have to scramble to make a living.

[WMUCarGuy]

2 BMWs is a bit of a surprise. I had thought they struggled to get a 2nd just for Sebring.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by Flyin Ryan

More purse money (or entrant start money).



Why not? If they're cash-flow positive, they definitely have a little bit of money to burn, and they give out next-to-zero purse money to start with. How many teams at Sebring received enough money from the organizers to even cover their tire bill? I'm not saying go bankrupt, just aim to break even on the year, and if you help participants financially, they're certain to be "long-term grateful". I know this is racing and it's full of slimeballs, but a little TLC can go a long way with good guys in the sport and "healthy business relationships".

The complete lack of purse money has always been one of my long-time beefs with sportscar racing - whether it's IMSA/ALMS, ACO, PSCR, USRRC, or GARRA, and I will never understand people that think purse money is irrelevant toward the costs of competing, it's just an incredibly naive business model. Yes, I understand that the costs can't be completely covered due to the endurance nature of the event, but they can definitely help, and because they don't is one reason why car counts are going to drop down to less entrants in a 4-class race than the 1-class race held the next day St. Petersburg and Long Beach weekends. There is no semblance of a respectable business model that makes any sense unless you are a manufacturer treating the sport as one big marketing exercise, or you are just going to field a car for a couple millionaires racing for fun.

Why does everyone think Kevin Buckler is racing David Gilliland in NASCAR and not a Porsche 911 at Sebring or St. Petersburg after all? He actually has a shot at covering the costs of racing in the former I imagine is one reason.

This is Robin Miller's article from February 2007 where I took out the bits talking about sportscars. I imagine not much has changed in two years.

But the bottom line is even sadder in sports cars.

The Grand Am series was founded and funded by NASCAR but you won't confuse it with the stock car division.

Other than the Rolex 24 Hours (which paid $100,000 to win last month), a victory in Jim France's series is worth a piddly $25,000 (unless you're not a member of the Pacesetter's Club and then it only pays $15,000).

There's quite a dropoff in the Daytona Prototypes at the big race since second is worth $35,000 and fifth brings in $10,000. "Not enough to pay the hotel bill," said one owner.

Chip Ganassi, whose budget with sponsor Telmex and Carlos Slim's deep pockets is thought to be in the $4 million range, raked in a whopping $150,000 in purse money last year for taking the 14-race team title.

In the more sophisticated American Le Mans Series, where slick cars like the Audi and Porsche are seven-figure
creations, the purses are also seven figures but only if you count cents.

The winner of this month's Mobil 1 12 Hours of Sebring classic will win $24,000 or, to be more precise, about $2,000 an hour which, ironically, is the going rate at a wind tunnel.

Honda is battling Porsche this season in LMP2 and they'll spend more on hospitality than their three-team lineup can earn.

ALMS also has a unique pay scale. If you are a full factory team, you are not eligible for prize money and, in 2005 at Sebring, 22 of the 38 starters got zero prize money.

My beloved USAC midget racing is also a financial train wreck. Engines can cost as much as $45,000 yet the purses have hardly increased since the 1970s and the winner is lucky to get $1,500 most nights.

At least you can go outlaw sprint car racing in Indiana for a reasonable amount of money and have a shot to win $4,000.

Grand Am sports a ton of good drivers yet doesn't draw much of a crowd but it does have the France faction to keep things afloat while ALMS suddenly has some muscle from manufacturers and some momentum. But neither sports car series makes financial sense at the moment and drivers have to scramble to make a living.

Good post Ryan, good post.