Who has the most powerfull V8?

Nismo · 27 Jan 2006, 22:43 (Ref:1510459)

I have a feeling it maybe the cosworth... they have huge expertise in V8 design dating back to the DFV...

any thoughts on other manufacturers>??

Knowlesy · 27 Jan 2006, 22:55 (Ref:1510467)

I reckon Ferrari and Toyota will be strong.

**GTRMagic** · 28 Jan 2006, 00:23 (Ref:1510526)

Toyota will be amazing... they are used to this multi-step process, introducing new ideas in several evolutions throughout the year... so a new engine design should be of no problem.... having a budget bigger than the GDP of New Zealand probably helps too

lookleft · 28 Jan 2006, 01:02 (Ref:1510544)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

.... having a budget bigger than the GDP of New Zealand probably helps too

But who doesn't

Raglanparade · 28 Jan 2006, 01:14 (Ref:1510550)

I wouldnt rule out Renault as well.

I dare say in terms of engines the ladder will look something like this.

Top: Toyota + Honda

Almost Top: Ferrari + Mercedes (The merc will of course blow up after 3 laps for the first half of the season)

Not Far Behind: Cosworth + Renault + BMW

I dare say that because of the development constraints and the lack of ability to progress much further with F1 engine development in big steps... i think all the manufacturers would be within about 30hp of each other.

KE30MAN · 28 Jan 2006, 05:33 (Ref:1510602)

I think you're right Jason, I would expect the Toyo to be a weapon. After ll, they caught up with V10's very quickly.

Nado · 28 Jan 2006, 06:11 (Ref:1510608)

Top: Cosworth, Toyota, Honda
Middle: Renault, Ferrari
Bottom: McLaren, BMW

Rennen · 28 Jan 2006, 18:12 (Ref:1510845)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nismo

I have a feeling it maybe the cosworth... they have huge expertise in V8 design dating back to the DFV...

any thoughts on other manufacturers>??

The DFV is as close to the current units as a WW2 Spitfire is to an F18 Supersonic Jet-fighter...of which neither of the later owes much if anything at all to the former!

Put it this way...Button spent 16 million of his own off-shore pounds not to have to drive one in order to drive the "Power of Dreams"!

Silk Cut Jaguar · 28 Jan 2006, 19:08 (Ref:1510868)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanh Ha

Top: Cosworth, Toyota, Honda
Middle: Renault, Ferrari
Bottom: McLaren, BMW

That's pretty much the same way I'm leaning on the engine speculation. Mercedes might spring a suprise or two but reliability will probably cripple any power advantage they have.

JeremySmith · 28 Jan 2006, 20:20 (Ref:1510891)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rennen

The DFV is as close to the current units as a WW2 Spitfire is to an F18 Supersonic Jet-fighter...of which neither of the later owes much if anything at all to the former!

Put it this way...Button spent 16 million of his own off-shore pounds not to have to drive one in order to drive the "Power of Dreams"!

That is a great deal of money to *pay* not to drive an F1 car.

Raven · 28 Jan 2006, 20:48 (Ref:1510903)

I think Ferrari and Honda will set the standard, closely followed by Renault and Toyota.

I wouldn't rule out Renault either. They have proven to be a great engine builder in recent times. They dominated the majority of the 1990s and came back strongly last year to end the V10 era on top.

bumpsteer · 28 Jan 2006, 21:16 (Ref:1510923)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rennen

The DFV is as close to the current units as a WW2 Spitfire is to an F18 Supersonic Jet-fighter...of which neither of the later owes much if anything at all to the former!

Put it this way...Button spent 16 million of his own off-shore pounds not to have to drive one in order to drive the "Power of Dreams"!

Rennen your DFV comment is incorrect. Any 90 degree V8 will have first and secondary harmonic (vibration) problems no matter what decade they were designed and built in. It's simple physics. Cosworth will have a fantastic amount of data (40 years worth of V8 development) and experience that will be relavant to these problems. Expect a tasty little number from Cossy and also from Renault where Rob White (formerly of Cosworth) will also be able to draw upon his past Cosworth experiences to knock up a good engine. The Cossy may not be the most powerful engine by the half way mark but it will keep going round and round all day whilst the likes of the Mercs will not.

Captain Chaos · 28 Jan 2006, 22:09 (Ref:1510960)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Cut Jaguar

That's pretty much the same way I'm leaning on the engine speculation. Mercedes might spring a suprise or two but reliability will probably cripple any power advantage they have.

Well done Silk. I knew someone would get there sooner or later.

Power is one thing, but the engine must be reliable - bulletproof even. Just look at who won the WCC last year. The more powerful but fragile Mercedes or the bulletproof Renault?

I would humbly suggest a better thread question would be: who will bring the best overall engine to the party this year?

- Cosworth, maybe because they've been building V8s for so long.
- Honda and Toyota should both benefit from their V8 experience and improve from last year.
- but it won't take long before the Mercedes, Renaults and Ferraris come storming up.

I guess I'm saying cream rises.

ssilviu · 29 Jan 2006, 06:31 (Ref:1511102)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Chaos

W
- Cosworth, maybe because they've been building V8s for so long.

V8 at 22.000 rpm....???

**Adam43** · 29 Jan 2006, 10:16 (Ref:1511155)

Of course the reliability question is a major factor. As is a question about low down torque, packaging, change in aero approach or the rest of the car (with weight and c.o.g. taking a back seat with the new rules). However a single question about power is still important. The poster could be interested in only one aspect - let us face it power is the one that turns people on - or perhaps the methodology is to consider each part (there is already a reliability thread - started by Mercedes!) and then bring that together.

So when wanting to bring in reliability remember to consider every other package. The Mercedes may not be the most powerful, but their packaging may have allowed that tight end around the back of the car? The Ferrari engine may be powerful, but has Red Bull slipped up with the cooling?

Anyway. Here is my guess on the power rankings (based on little)

Honda
Ferrari
Toyota
Renault
Cosworth
Mercedes
BMW

This is for straight out the box. I don't know ho close they shall all be. It is a new design which tends to provide a large distribution. However the design is limited which closes things up.

pirenzo · 29 Jan 2006, 10:21 (Ref:1511157)

What really matters is the way in which you go about designing and producing a racing engine. It doesn't really matter whether the end result is 3.0l V10 or 2.4l V8, the way in which you go about designing the engine is what sets aside the good manufacturers from the not so good ones.

I expect that given the amount of money posessed by Ferrari, Honda, Toyota etc V8 'experience' will count for little.

IMO, the order should really have changed little from last year.

ssilviu · 29 Jan 2006, 10:59 (Ref:1511173)

what about renault v8 experince in GP2?

**Adam43** · 29 Jan 2006, 11:05 (Ref:1511176)

It is massively de-tuned, so I guess that is relatively unimportant. However there were rumours that they were already building one before the rules were announced.

ssilviu · 29 Jan 2006, 11:16 (Ref:1511185)

which engine is more close to the f1 engine than the gp2 one?

**Adam43** · 29 Jan 2006, 11:27 (Ref:1511192)

It may well be more relative than other current engines. However that doesn't mean it is close enough to be of significant advantage. It could prove that a 2005 V10 is more relevant, despite the rule limitations of the new engines.

JeremySmith · 29 Jan 2006, 16:41 (Ref:1511348)

Adam
What do you think Mercedes are doing wrong then? For years now they have experienced engine reliability problems. Going by early rumblings it sounds like they are lagging behind again.
Jeremy

bumpsteer · 29 Jan 2006, 17:05 (Ref:1511358)

With the engine rules being relatively restrictive now (V angle, cylinder spacing, weight etc) they are not going to be far away from each other on outright power. Where the differences will come from will be drivability, reliabilty, fuel consumption and electronics.

Alex Hodgkinson · 29 Jan 2006, 18:56 (Ref:1511398)

Don't forget that Ferrari also have VAST ammounts of experiance and therefore data with V8 motors.

More than 1/2 of their road cars over the years have had a V8 lump sitting in them.

ccharlie6 · 29 Jan 2006, 19:23 (Ref:1511405)

pretty much all of the engine builders have previous work with racing V8's don't honda, toyota and mercedes all have or had CART/IRL engines (these are V8's aren't they) cosworth DFV/FL, Indy, sportscars etc. ferrari from road cars (although these aren't exactly comparable with a full race V8, the only i cant exactly link up is BMW

QuickSilver · 30 Jan 2006, 13:12 (Ref:1511876)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Hodgkinson

Don't forget that Ferrari also have VAST ammounts of experiance and therefore data with V8 motors.

More than 1/2 of their road cars over the years have had a V8 lump sitting in them.

By that logic, Buick will win the WCC this year.

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