[Multi 21] Sir Lewis

[S griffin]

Arturio Merzario, now there’s a name from the past. Glad to see he’s still keeping in touch with F1

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by wnut

Lewis Hamilton ‘does not want George Russell at Mercedes’ as contract saga takes new twist

From the Express

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-a...es-Formula-One

If this is true, I would say that it is a serious miscalculation on Lewis' part and it will probably end his driving days with Mercedes. I doubt that Mercedes will take well to being told who to employ by an employee.

Russell is 22, Hamilton 36, and it would seem pretty clear where the long term future is.

Haven't most of the greats vetoed teammates at least once though?

Russell's performance was great, but let's not forget it was on what was essentially an oval track. It's being a bit overrated.

[S griffin]

Fair point on it being more of an oval, but I don't think it was overrated. It did just convince what a lot of us were thinking. That George is the real deal

[Kato]

An interesting response from what is certainly more than a sleeper issue. As Richard said, LH being unsigned, a seven times World Champion, going long on negotiations and being out of contract is really very strange.

Given that the reported out of pocket for Mercedes Benz is around 20 Million a year after sponsors and associated deals, Lewis is a bargain. Look at how they very smartly got on the right side of history this season when Black Lives Matter came to the fore, specifically in their biggest market, the US, wrapped the cars black instead of silver and let Lewis speak his mind.

You cannot buy this sort of good will towards the brand. And I am not a Lewis fan - although the older he and I get the more positive I feel towards him. And I have never owned a Mercedes Benz although one of my daughter's have and the gear box was an effing disaster. I stick with Land Rover Jaguar, then I have no high hopes...

Sure it could be marketing, but I don't think so. Neither do I think that it is likely that Lewis will be out of a seat this year. As for George, yep good peddler, but when was the last time we saw Lewis retire the car after a unforced error on a safety car lap?

[peebee2]

Exactly. People thinking Daimler-Benz would save money bringing George in for Lewis are massively misunderstanding the commercial reality. Which is why Lewis wants the stipend to start with.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Exactly. People thinking Daimler-Benz would save money bringing George in for Lewis are massively misunderstanding the commercial reality. Which is why Lewis wants the stipend to start with.

I think that's right, but it ignores the overall issue of current perception, which is "how can a company justify umpteen millions for racing, when it is making thousands redundant and (possibly) closing factories?"

[thetool]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

I think that's right, but it ignores the overall issue of current perception, which is "how can a company justify umpteen millions for racing, when it is making thousands redundant and (possibly) closing factories?"

Because if they lost Lewis it would actually be a financial negative, even if the results on the track remained the same (which is far from certain). Mercedes would probably pay him a sizable chunk of his salary even if wasn't racing anymore just to use his image.

[Peter Mallett]

Believe me, shareholders generally don't ignore the bottom line in favour of more esoteric arrangements. I've even seen them try to tear up contracts because they don't see the benefits.

[Derwent]

Lewis has never liked the PR, meet and greet stuff. Jenson wrote in his autobiography that Lewis let him do it all at McLaren.
George Russell is a clean cut, articulate and personable young man highly suited to the market that Mercedes aim for.
Lewis has been great and no doubt helped by his car but it's time to go away and spend his money (does he need any more?) and get a life. I have huge respect for Nico for walking away after his title win and doing the family thing he has missed out on for 20 years.

[thetool]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Believe me, shareholders generally don't ignore the bottom line in favour of more esoteric arrangements. I've even seen them try to tear up contracts because they don't see the benefits.

Nothing esoteric about the fact that Hamilton directly brings in more money to Mercedes & partners than he is paid. Shareholders understand more money over less well enough.

[Peter Mallett]

Does he? When you add the cost of the team into the mix, I'd suggest his salary stands out as a major sum. Not suggesting you are wrong but there are bigger things than F1 in the world.

[Richard C]

First, I am not disputing that Lewis provides both value to the team as a pure driver and secondarily as a marketing tool.

Marketing and economics is not my forte, but at some level Mercedes will have to decide what value the entire F1 sponsorship has. I expect at the macro level they have done that. But it is likely they don't have micro level understanding. So for example, of the total value, how much is attributed to Lewis vs. another driver who might produce similar results (from a championship perspective).

Somewhere that value gets a dollar figure attached. And if that value is subjective and if those involved in the negotiations are very much out of synch with each other, then it creates problems with coming to terms.

So, for example, someone somewhere in this entire thing may be saying... "George can provide 80% of the value for 20% of the cost". Its a proposition of a lesser solution, but the cost savings might be attractive. Of which others may not agree. Who is to say who is right?

Richard

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Does he? When you add the cost of the team into the mix, I'd suggest his salary stands out as a major sum. Not suggesting you are wrong but there are bigger things than F1 in the world.

Yes, and like Senna and Schumacher before him, Hamilton knows it. He’s not going to let them have £100m value for £10m.

I think the argument is more about the term, where the long-term future of the team is unclear, meaning they don’t want to commit to a long-term big commitment.

I note someone above respected Rosberg for quitting. I very much doubt Merc appreciated their new world champ retiring at zero notice.

[bella]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

he had covid 2 months ago and they have no idea what his health or long term health will be like.

could there be a fitness issues here causing delay?

as a matter of course, do you not take additional precautions, ask for additional medical tests, before offering what i would assume will be, one way or another, a very lucrative offer?

he’s splitboarding up a mountain at high altitude on insta the past few days. that takes some serious effort, i wouldn’t say his fitness is an issue...

[Adam43]

Almost like he’s training for something?

Perhaps there is more to it. He’s having to show Daimler/Ineos/whoever that he is fit and is super motivated. This is only because of George Russell. There is no way Lewis would be up that mountain if George Russell hadn’t driven so well.

[Peter Mallett]

Taking away the Russell sarcasm, I don't doubt he is keeping himself fit, I am also sure he will sign some form of contract for this year. But, as a manufacturer I think Richard's point about cost/benefit has legs.

Comparing Mercedes now with the Senna era of Mclaren in terms of cost/benefit, is perhaps a stretch since at that time McLaren were a racing team, not a manufacturer so their entire financial structure was about racing. A totally different business case.

[Derwent]

While LH gets a lot pf publicity he controversial views many not go down well in the board rooms of Daimler or INEOS. Drawing attention to slave labour is a touching subject in Germany.
While he has millions of Twitter fans, how many of those are likely to buy a Mercedes? I would suggest that in the long run George Russell is far more marketable to a Mercedes buying audience. He is an intelligent guy and will say the right things in the right way. His clean cut image will got down well in a board room.

[Peter Mallett]

Frankly I have never considered the merits of a road car based on Formula One. Nowadays the gap is even wider IMO and whether Russell or anyone else drives makes no difference to brand support. As to the other point, some suspect that by highlighting these things, Lewis has shown Mercedes to be in tune with the market.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Derwent

While LH gets a lot pf publicity he controversial views many not go down well in the board rooms of Daimler or INEOS. Drawing attention to slave labour is a touching subject in Germany.
While he has millions of Twitter fans, how many of those are likely to buy a Mercedes? I would suggest that in the long run George Russell is far more marketable to a Mercedes buying audience. He is an intelligent guy and will say the right things in the right way. His clean cut image will got down well in a board room.

I would expect that George would already have built some relationships with members of Daimler's board as well, and any attempt to exclude him from the race team could backfire, not to mention it pretty well confirms the point that Russell could achieve similar results at a fraction of the cost. Difficult not to accept whilst you are laying off staff.

Perhaps they could charge Hamilton to drive in order to beat Schu's record and cement his legacy.

[chunterer]

This thread has developed in a very interesting and I dare say accurate way...

Methinks it could be as simple as the old cliche 'don't bite the hand that feeds you'!

Have we yet considered how much influence Ineos has now Jim Ratcliffe is a 3rd owner?

Part of the reason Merc sold a 3rd of the team might well be because they were lookimg to save costs and inflated driver salaries?

I.E. Merc possibly said a flat no to Lewis's initial denands and Wolf was worried he would lose him. Therefore Merc said they wanted to retain Lewis but Toto would need to negotiate Lewis down or have to find additonal means to meet his remuneration demands.

Throughout last season Lewis repeatedly said he was unconfortable thinking about contracts due to the climate. But I doubt he figured that we would still be in that clinate nor that Russell might impact on value etc.

[Peter Mallett]

Oh dear.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/max-ve...eorge-russell/

[midgetman]

That's only Horner having a bit of fun

Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk

[Aysedasi]

Or rather making himself look a bit of a prat......

[S griffin]

Not giving Russell credit there is he?

[Peter Mallett]

Agreed. I thought it quite humorous.