Button to stay

[bella]

Originally Posted by old man

I think this is a wise decision as McLaren have not had the best chassis for a while and been unable to do as well with the Merc engine as they should have. Jenson has got some decent results this year and they need that continuity and experience to add to Alonso's fire. To do well you have to take decisions on empirical data, not emotion

i assume you know a little more than me about the kind of car they both like to drive then. do they both seek the same behaviour from their cars? in which case yes, surely it'll develop at double quick pace. otherwise it'll be quite the power struggle - alonso doing his angry spaniard routine demanding to be number one and button, with all his knowledge of mclaren and how they work, making more progress... i suppose it guarantees at least one of them will be out the door at the end of 2015.

for what it's worth, empirical data actually points towards magnussen being the correct choice, because he is faster.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by bella

i assume you know a little more than me about the kind of car they both like to drive then. do they both seek the same behaviour from their cars? in which case yes, surely it'll develop at double quick pace. otherwise it'll be quite the power struggle - alonso doing his angry spaniard routine demanding to be number one and button, with all his knowledge of mclaren and how they work, making more progress... i suppose it guarantees at least one of them will be out the door at the end of 2015.

for what it's worth, empirical data actually points towards magnussen being the correct choice, because he is faster.

I thought JB scored more championship points this season than KM? What empirical data are you using?

[Greem]

Well, for all the fanfare and trumpet-blowing I'm pretty disappointed. This was purported to be BIG NEWS yet we'd all heard the rumours.

BIG NEWS would have been McLaren ditching F1. Ditching K-Mag and replacing him with Alonso... not that big.

Still, if next year's car is a dog at least they'll have someone used to wrestling one further up the grid than it deserves.

[steve nielsen]

saw this on twitter:



so they will both be racing in F1 next year :-)

[bella]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I thought JB scored more championship points this season than KM? What empirical data are you using?

that he's quicker, not points scored.

which goes to show that empirical data is much like statistics. it says what you want it to say

[CTD]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I thought JB scored more championship points this season than KM? What empirical data are you using?

Originally Posted by bella

that he's quicker, not points scored.

which goes to show that empirical data is much like statistics. it says what you want it to say

I read the same thing in an article today.
However, I have already read quite a few concerning this topic, so can't find it right now.

[steve_r]

Originally Posted by paulSenna

Does anyone know how long the contracts are for Button and Alonso? Could Button be playing the waiting game next December too?

Alonso is 2 years, with 3rd year option accourding to the BBC. I don't know about Button, but assume 1 year only.

[Paradise City]

I'd be surprised if Magnussen wasn't faster in terms of raw pace.

Still doesn't change the fact that keeping Button with Magnussen still on the books is a smart decision.

Mclaren has taken the optimum route in terms of driver performance for '15 onwards and still have options over a number of promising youngsters.

[bella]

Originally Posted by CTD

I read the same thing in an article today.
However, I have already read quite a few concerning this topic, so can't find it right now.

it's mentioned in the bbc piece they did last night. but it's also been said pretty much all season and before kevin signed a race contract too - the guy is really very very quick.

i have zero emotional investment in button and didn't really want kevin to win the 3.5 championship either so can't say i have a strong preference for him. but it's very frustrating to see teams spend time and money developing drivers only to bin them off for not having the experience that they, the team, have been in control of gaining.

that, coupled with mclaren being keener on magnussen for quite some time then suddenly going for button, makes me think it has absolutely nothing to do with on track performance.

out of curiosity, those who think mclaren are right to keep button, did you think they were right to sign magnussen and bin off perez at the start of this season?

[p-matt]

Magnussen is faster on raw pace, but seriously lacking in terms of race craft and tyre management. Who better to learn from than two of the best in the game in both areas. It's fair game between him and Vandoorne for a seat in the future. Based on his performance to date, Stoffel would be the best bet at this moment in time for the long term.

[Quartermiler]

Great news from a Jenson Button fans point of view.

1 year contract with a further 1 year option is a good result for Jenson too.

Personally I think Jenson gave us some of the best on track action of the year and demonstrated great racing skill. He did out qualify his team mate in 2014 and he did score more points, he's been a world champion, can handle politics and is a great team player, as well as being commercially savvy.

So I can't see any reason you wouldn't sign him over KM. As good as KM was, he made many mistakes in his first year and was well and truly beaten by Jenson. Obviously KM has potential for the future, but Jenson out classes him currently.

[VIVA GT]

OK, I admit that I must be a Button fan, I like the guy. He seems a solid driver, he has won the WDC (despite what anyone says about the circumstances, he has, and that can never be taken away), he's good with his machinery, and appears to have a great feel for the car, hence his good showings in different conditions.
I do understand that there are more reasons than just speed for gaining championship points, but that is how the success of a driver (and a racing team) is measured, I do also think that surely, the driver in a team who scores more points in a season than his team mate (using the same machinery, in the same conditions) must be the faster?
No doubt Magnussen has future potential, but I personally think that Button was the better choice for McLaren for next season.
In answer to bella's Perez question, I wasn't sorry to see him binned by the team at the end of last year, although he showed flashes of speed, he was on occasions quite reckless in my opinion. As the old adage goes, to finish first, first you must finish!

[Knowlesy]

Poor Kevin.

I think Button is a safe, solid choice. But McLaren have no right to bring in rookies if they don't give them time beyond one solitary learning season.

I hope he gets another chance.

[CTD]

Kevin Magnussens manager Dorthe Riis, has denied that Kevin will do SuperGT, so far he is 100% dedicated to McLaren F1.
She also says that Kevins involvement in the press conference is a clear sign that Kevin won't "just" be parked as a test/reserve driver but be a full part of the team.

[Paradise City]

It's not a personal commitment to Button.

What bugs me is the knee-jerk rookie worship and the implicit idea that teams have some kind of responsibility to flatter the impatience of fans in terms of drafting in the rising hotshot. They don't. The rising hotshot is optional and the team's performance is what is paramount.

Sometimes, it's smarter to retain the seasoned peddler. It's the best of both worlds. They have access to two seasoned campaigners and retain a hold over two rookies and as a little pup Magnussen has a long shelf life.

[bella]

with your "knee-jerk rookie worship" comment i assume you're talking about generally rather than just those of us on here thinking that magnussen would have been a better choice.

[Knowlesy]

What even is "knee-jerk rookie worship" anyways?

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by bella

with your "knee-jerk rookie worship" comment i assume you're talking about generally rather than just those of us on here thinking that magnussen would have been a better choice.

There's a general knee-jerk rookie worship. People bellyaching about how awful it was Barrichello and Schumacher kept going on.

I would qualify it somewhat by saying that testing restrictions means that more seasoned campaigners are being unduly favoured - and that's not appropriate.

But I'm also of the school of thought that says older drivers can have alot to offer and are often the better choice over the latest hotshot. This isn't stressed enough.

Here Magnussen is still tethered to Mclaren for future recall whilst Button and Alonso can provide in-depth feedback on what is a period of transition for Mclaren. It's the optimum arrangement.

[Knowlesy]

Not particularly knee-jerk is it, really?

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Not particularly knee-jerk is it, really?

It is. It's more to do with fans being bored with existing names I suspect than an actual appraisal of the merits of the particular drivers concerned. I suspect this of people who can't tease out their position cogently. It's evident in print media and so on.

And there's zero moral obligation for a team to deploy a novice they've developed to their senior race team. Young driver programs are paid by the team and their purpose is to provide options to the team - a hotshot with uncomplicated contract conditions ideally - but they are not obliged to hire them if more optimum arrangements can be availed of.

The teams pay for development, they can do what they like with their young guns. Their ultimate mandate remains the same - the performance of the team.

[Quartermiler]

Why would age be a factor?

Ability, desire to win and results are all that should matter. Younger or older is irrelevant.

[djinvicta]

Plus JB is a sponsors dream driver. Quiet, unassuming, speaks politely, always ready to interview. Also a known Honda person.
Must admit, it would not feel right in his mind to know that Eric B didnt want him.
Surely a little discord in the head?
Im sure JB will rise to it, see how FA reacts if he beats him...

[sparkione]

Originally Posted by bella

for what it's worth, empirical data actually points towards magnussen being the correct choice, because he is faster.

That's the second stupid thing you've said today. Empirical data tells us that Jenson was a match for Mag in quali (10/9) and scored more than twice as many points on Sundays. And points mean prizes.

Wonderful news, just the right decision – made, in reality, by Mansour and the Bahrain money men. Wonder who wrote Ron's speech? You can almost hear the gritted teeth.

Can't wait to see how the two of 'em stack up next year.

[CTD]

What really bothers me, with this decision, is that the two person in the management group who knows the most about the team, the sport and the real performances of both drivers, where the ones who "lost".
Both Ron Dennis and Eric Boullier wanted Magnussen. Those two are the ones with the greatest insight into the team currently of the management (and far better than any of us), but they lost out to another part of the management, who by my knowledge, doesn't have a general feeling with the sport and the team, and based the decision on their feeling and marketing wishes. Although their feeling is based on inferior knowledge.

I'm trying not to be biased by my nationality, but arguing that Button is the better driver, is saying that both Dennis and Boullier is poor in driver selection. Please remember who signed guys like Senna, Prost, Hunt, Rosberg and Mansell in the past.

I'm sorry to say, but Button was signed because of money - most likely because he took a huge pay cut!

[steve_r]

I thought Perez was unlucky not to get a second year with McLaren. When compared to Button, on the face of it Perez seemed to fare better than Magnussen did. Certainly in terms of points scored anyway. I appreciate that not everyone will agree with me on this.

Button is widely regarded as lacking slightly in terms of qualifying pace, yet out ranked Magnussen in qualfying, who is supposedly faster according to these mysterious "empirical data" reports that no one can actually produce.

Confused.

Having said all that, I genuinely think Magnussen has a good future in F1. It's a shame that there are so few seats available.