Jordan are running old Bridgestones.

[steve nielsen]

This is exactly what Minardi had to deal with all races last year.

[alesi95]

Kinda underlines the opinion that Bridgestone are an exclusive Ferrari supplier making custom tailored tyres for Ferrari. This is why Michelin are rubbish and Williams or Mclaren need an exclusive supply of Goodyears.

[Gt_R]

I agree with Golem that things need to be done.

It is not known to the average F1 fans, but the gap between the best and the back markers are not the result of simply one old engine or a poor design. Rather, it is the compliation of the times lost due to individual inferior parts that back markers had to use.

[Try Hard]

I remember hearing about the tyre situation when i was down at the Jordan factory the other week. It's correct that Jordan do pay for their tyres and and the specification is behind that of Ferrari. As far as i was able to gather, they get hardly any help from bridgestone, all that happens is they turn up, are given tyres that bs wants to give them, and left to it.
I'm not sure exactly how far behind in specification the tyres were/are, as I heard times of anywhere from 6-7 months, to as low as 1-2.

One other interesting point that was made though was regarding the specification of the cosworth engine. The jordan guys had noticed Jag were runnning close to 19,000 RPM in Oz, and were quite baffled by it, as they were suppposadly ment to get the same spec engine, but they could only rev as high as 18,600, IIRC. This is despite being ment to have the same spec engine as Jag. Bit of one sided-ness from cosworth perhaps? wouldn't be suprised....

[1 Lotus]

I am not saying you are wrong, but what is your source for this information?

If this is true, why hasn't Eddie been complaining publicly about this to the FIA? He doesn't seem to be withdrawn and silent on issues of far less significance than this.

[hamsmith]

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Michelin can supply more teams, they just don't want to.

Teams are not allowed to supply more than 60% of the grid.

This is unfortunate as bridgestone clearly are only intrested in Ferrari. They let BAR go to Mitchelin while the team was still contracted to them for one more year. it was also the reason for McLaren leaving early. That team was fed up with getting tyres made for Ferrari and Bridgestone didn't really care about losing them.

Does anyone know why Minardi was running Avon's in testing late last year? Was this related to lack of supply available?

[steve nielsen]

Last year Minardi did'nt have a contract with Bridgestone yet and they did'nt want to suply tires before the deal was signed.

[Gt_R]

All the details about Jordan...is there any hard evidence to support?

And is it true teams are not allowed to supply more than 60%? if so what happens if BS or Michelin decides to quit, they cant? I'm not sure but i thought if teams are supplying less than 60% of the grid, they couldn't reject teams which needs a tyre supplier.

In which case, I believe now Michelin supply 6 teams, whearas last year they supply 5.

[hamsmith]

Just browsing the autosport and checking out the pictures of two certain cars at the malaysian GP. It's hard to get sizes acurate in a photo but Ferrari does appear to have wide square shouldered tyres almost identical to the Michelins on the car behind it in the photo. The Jordan has a narrower looking tyre which appears to have rounder shoulders. Which suggests that Jordan are in fact running with last years tyres.

[Try Hard]

my source is the actual mechanics at jordan grand prix... three people mentioned the tyre situatiom. I will admit only one person mentioned the engine situation though...

Ed

[Spudgun]

I'm all in favour of one make tyres. The development wouldn't be so rampant since everyone would be on the same tyre. Thus you wouldn't have the massive increase in speeds. 3 seconds faster at Sepang compared to last year. Very impressive!

The only problem is making it commercially viable to a tyre manufacturer. They could say: 'We supply the F1 grid, so we make the best tyres in the world!'. But someone else could say: 'Compared to who?'.

If a tyre manufacturer is prepared to go it alone fair enough. But when it gets down to the nitty gritty, it's all about market share in the consumer market between Michelin and Bridgestone.

Incidentally, when I bought my car back last year, it had Michelin Pilot tyres fitted and I was very happy. See! Marketing really does work!

[Jordi]

One make tyres, please. It happened in 1998 as well, Ferrari demanded new front tyres from Goodyear, and got them, and Williams had to redesign the car heavily so the car would be better suited to the tyres... Not Minardi, but Williams.

[Wrex]

Originally posted by hamsmith
Teams are not allowed to supply more than 60% of the grid.

Actually, thats not correct. There is a minimum number of teams they must supply if asked to do so.

Its a commercial reality that BS are going to get behind the team that can give them results. Does anyone really think the Michelin tyres are developed for Jaguar as equally as Williams?

Also, why does anyone think BS would'nt want to help the smaller teams. Imagine the publicity of Jordan or Sauber knocking off some of the Michelin teams. Would be worth almost as much as the WDC (and if you dont believe me, ask yourself which tyre company won both championships last season and which tyre people considered better?).

The problem is Minardi and co dont know what they want from BS. And even if they did, how would they develope it. BS cant do it alone, the tyres must be tested to be developed, and those teams dont have the money to test.

But, ignore the above, because lets face it, this thread is really just another excuse to beat up on Ferrari anyway. Please, continue.

[Gt_R]

Quote:"Actually, thats not correct. There is a minimum number of teams they must supply if asked to do so.

Its a commercial reality that BS are going to get behind the team that can give them results. Does anyone really think the Michelin tyres are developed for Jaguar as equally as Williams?"

Exactly my thoughts.

And to just go into it further, If we compare how Michelin treat privateer teams (minardi), the so called "fair" tyre company merely refuses to supply teams which brings them no positive benefits. Again, for commercial reasons.

[grumpy1]

Ok there seems to be some confusion here.Let me first explain how the rule works and then how both deal with the teams concerned.
The rule is a tyre manufacturor has to supply 30% of the feild.It doesn't say with what leval of development they have to be but within the parameters of the rule(ie Dimensions etc).If B/S are supplying last years product to all but Ferrari/Sauber then thats an issue for thoose teams to deal with.Its not that Michelin can't or wont supply other teams but under the current rule they are inelligible to.
Ok that settled no how both deal with the teams.
1.Partner Teams
These teams have signed an aggreement for resiprical business with the team ie BMW,Mercedes,Jaguar,Ferrari etc.To these teams the tyres are supplied foc.
2.Customer Teams
These are teams that pay for there tyres when supplied ie
BAR,Jordan.
Unfortunatly being a customer team has its disadvantages as you get what you pay for.In BAR's case thats not a bad thing as they get a choice of compounds etc.In the case of B/S you get Ferrari cast offs or what was left over from last season.The only way for this to change is for the tyre rules to alter every year so it doesn't happen.

The Grumpy1

[golem]

"Also, why does anyone think BS would'nt want to help the smaller teams. Imagine the publicity of Jordan or Sauber knocking off some of the Michelin teams. Would be worth almost as much as the WDC (and if you dont believe me, ask yourself which tyre company won both championships last season and which tyre people considered better?)."

I don't agree.

People in general who aren't F1 fans only see the bridgestone adds with schu winning another race and however many World Championships they've won.

I'm yet to see a Michelin add in a car magazine or paper stating 'we came 2nd, 3rd and 4th though.'

And Bridgestone do not really care that much. The rules state they have to supply. Sure. They don't necessarily have to supply equally. They design the tyres for the Ferrari. Which does not mean they will mechanically or aerodynamically agree with another chassis. Sauber may get some help because of the tie ins with Ferrari.

But tie this in with every kind of outsourced part you can think of, and the result is a very unhappy one. It's just tyres and engine form such a major part of the package with aerodynamics (which is the teams responsibility).

"The problem is Minardi and co dont know what they want from BS. And even if they did, how would they develop it. BS cant do it alone, the tyres must be tested to be developed, and those teams dont have the money to test." But they likely won't get that money without speed, which they don't get without money...

"But, ignore the above, because lets face it, this thread is really just another excuse to beat up on Ferrari anyway. Please, continue."
No, this is a completely valid topic and for me has nothing to do with Ferrari. It's a serious problem for all the teams. When the tyre company is given a complete and rigid physical specification (Down to cross section profile) by the FIA and that company knows they're allowed to make it for profit as well as advertising, but they're competing for this contract with some other manufacturers, then they'll price it keenly. Bias should no longer be an issue. There's no point to bias when you've won the race in the august before, when they announce whoever has next years contract.

I know F1 is tech oriented, but this is something I really feel detracts from the teams battling it out on the track and hurts the racing a bit.

Control tyres work. Ask Cochrane (AVESCO/V8 Supercars). Nobody wonders if Marcus or Ford won because of his tailor made dunlops. Holden / Skaife had dunlops too. And you know what? The backmarkers disn't seem to mind their tyres either.