|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
View Poll Results: Should the MC 12 be at Le Mans? | |||
Yes, the MC12 deserves to be there | 65 | 52.00% | |
No, Vitaphone should look for another car | 60 | 48.00% | |
Voters: 125. You may not vote on this poll |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
26 Dec 2006, 11:30 (Ref:1799341) | #26 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 402
|
It would to me, having seen the shots of the original testing mule which was obviously an Enzo (even with the wheels sticking out of the rear bodywork!). I think the difference is that the Enzo clearly looks like a road car, whereas even the roadgoing MC12 clearly looks like a racing car. Though how you encapsulate this in the regulations is anybody's guess.
|
||
|
26 Dec 2006, 12:55 (Ref:1799373) | #27 | ||
Rookie
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 59
|
In my opinion, the answer for this question is simple, Maserati did an illegal car so they can't race at Le Mans 24 hours
So Vitaphone should think to come in Le Mans with an other car (why not the Saleen like in 2004 ) |
||
|
26 Dec 2006, 13:17 (Ref:1799378) | #28 | |||
Rookie
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 47
|
Quote:
when the car was built and started testing it was very much legal as are the aston or the vette but then the aco and fia changed the rules and it became illegal |
|||
|
26 Dec 2006, 13:20 (Ref:1799383) | #29 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,366
|
Quote:
|
|||
__________________
Sportscar Racing fans of the world Unite! |
26 Dec 2006, 13:31 (Ref:1799386) | #30 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,710
|
Quote:
|
|||
|
26 Dec 2006, 13:58 (Ref:1799396) | #31 | |||
Rookie
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 47
|
Quote:
|
|||
|
26 Dec 2006, 15:18 (Ref:1799425) | #32 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,735
|
Quote:
|
|||
|
26 Dec 2006, 15:41 (Ref:1799433) | #33 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,153
|
It shouldn't be allowed to race in GT1 in my opinion, but the GTP class wouldn't be such a weird option imho. Everybody on the track will know it has to be compared to the Corvettes and Aston Martins, yet it won't run in the same class so it can't take away the class honours for them, thus pleasing Corvette and AM. However, they can still defeat them, so if they're faster than Corvette and AM Vitaphone can still be pleased.
|
||
|
26 Dec 2006, 15:51 (Ref:1799441) | #34 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 107
|
Quote:
Organizer: So, this is the car you want to race, yes? It's a prototype, right? Manufacturer: No, we want to race it as a GT. Org: But it looks like a race car. Man: We're building 25 road going models. So it's a road car. Org: Then why does it look like a race car? Man (starting to lose patience): It looks like a race car because we want race it. Org: Aha! So it IS a race car! Man (less patient): No, it's homologated as a road car! Org: Then if it's a road car why must you race it? Man (no patience left): Look, we just want to run the car in your bloody race! We did everything by the book like you demand! We weren't expecting this Spanish Inquisition! |
||
__________________
Europa Bambaataa I like electronic boom-boom-boom sounds. So what? |
26 Dec 2006, 16:42 (Ref:1799453) | #35 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 268
|
the point is that the MC12 IS still wider than what the regulations say, the Saleen S7 IS a racecar but it's dimension are regular, the one on the Mc12 not...
|
||
|
26 Dec 2006, 17:27 (Ref:1799466) | #36 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,366
|
Yeah the MC12 isnt legal now. It was when it was designed though. Or are you trying to tell me that a manufacturer such as Maserati designed and built a GT1 car to race that they knew would be outside the regulations? I'm sorry but that just doesent make sense, if you are building a GT1 car to race in sportscar racing then you surely make sure it fits the regulations. To suggest that Maserati knowingly set out to build a car outside the regulations is ludicrous. IMO.
|
||
__________________
Sportscar Racing fans of the world Unite! |
26 Dec 2006, 17:32 (Ref:1799468) | #37 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,555
|
Quote:
|
|||
|
26 Dec 2006, 18:22 (Ref:1799486) | #38 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,710
|
Quote:
|
|||
|
26 Dec 2006, 19:13 (Ref:1799495) | #39 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,919
|
Quote:
So you are saying, it was never intended to be a GT car in any series. And that they never bothered to adjust the car (from the FIA variance)to comply with any GT spec rules? Heck following that line of logic maybe the ACO should let the Veyron race in GT-1. L.P. |
|||
|
26 Dec 2006, 20:06 (Ref:1799513) | #40 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,710
|
Quote:
So Mr. Ratel had to do something with the car because he told Maserati that Supercars are allowed in FIA GT. So he together with the FIA found a way to let the MC12 run in GT1 (with the smaller wing and all the other stuff) |
|||
|
26 Dec 2006, 20:19 (Ref:1799518) | #41 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,919
|
Yes they made some changes and got a variance on the chassis, but never made an attempt to rectify the differences, with the regular GT-1 rules. I realize FIA had an obligation to allow it to race, as it was built for a class that went defunct before it ever really became one! That however does not justify letting it run as an ACO sanctioned GT-1 IMO.
L.P. |
||
|
26 Dec 2006, 20:19 (Ref:1799519) | #42 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 626
|
Quote:
|
||
|
26 Dec 2006, 21:15 (Ref:1799540) | #43 | |
Racer
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 151
|
...is it possible that Maserati NEVER actually wanted the car to run at Le Mans in the first place ??
|
|
|
26 Dec 2006, 21:47 (Ref:1799554) | #44 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,366
|
Sure its possible, but I find it highly unlikely. Especially when the car was developed by Maserati Corse, the Maserati factory basically. The car has been raced in every major sportscar series it can, why develop a GT1 car and then limit it to only a few big series when it could also run at Le Mans as well as the LMS and the ALMS (without penalties)? It simply isnt good business sense.
|
||
__________________
Sportscar Racing fans of the world Unite! |
26 Dec 2006, 22:56 (Ref:1799589) | #45 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,073
|
Let's remember briefly what happened during the time the MC12 was born. Ratel and ACO were thinking of making GT1 supercars the top class of unified rules, no doubt after some pressure from the Grand Makes including Maserati and Mr Todt himself. There were rules as work in progress and as ever FIAT attempted to preemt everybody by making a car on their own understanding of what the rules should be (a trick that they have repeated on the Punto S2000). For whatever reason ACO decided to stick with prototypes and Todt (together with FIA) pushed hard to get MC12 eligible somewhere. Thankfully Ratel did not give in and only let it run heavily restricted. In this form, and knowing its potential, it is very conceivable to see it in Mans, albeit in privateer capacity. If Maserati makes a U-turn and wants to take advantage of this in the future I am sure ACO will crucify them.
|
||
|
27 Dec 2006, 01:17 (Ref:1799657) | #46 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 268
|
here in italy the question about legality or not of the mc12 was discussed a lot... and the point (at least at the start of 2005) was did somebody EVER had a copy of the Supercar Regulations? the answer is NO, the saleen would fit in that category and in my personal point of view it is really a racecar before a road car but at least it fits the famous 5*2 metres box so probably maserati would have wanted to fight protos as McLaren did in '95 but then there where other rules (and probably no manufacturer at all which helped a lot) so... let's invite some other great GT1 cars like Saleen (at least 3 from ORECA, Zakspeed and Racing Box), Astons (BMS, Phoenix and factory ones) and Chevys (GLPK, PSi, LAA, factory) and you'll have a very competitive field (with the one i have said you will have something like 12 + the JLOC Lambo which should be in the 24h just for it's sound and for it's looks)...
|
||
|
27 Dec 2006, 01:26 (Ref:1799667) | #47 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,735
|
Quote:
|
|||
|
27 Dec 2006, 16:10 (Ref:1799959) | #48 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 188
|
The more, the merrier!
How valid are rules if they are constantly changing? |
||
|
27 Dec 2006, 16:18 (Ref:1799962) | #49 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 402
|
Just looking through the ACO GT1 regs and came across this. Not sure if the MC12 qualifies for this. Could it be used to grant an exception?
"Cars the overall width of which exceeds 200 cm (rear view mirrors excluded) may be eligible if they are "Full type CEE" homologated or the equivalent for United States or Japan and produced at least 300 units per year. The bodywork elements that exceed the maximum overall width (200 cm) must keep the original shape and dimension (ACO homologation form)." Someone posted on another thread that the problem with the MC12's legality was not one of bodywork dimensions, rather drivetrain-related. Anyone know anything about this? |
||
|
27 Dec 2006, 17:22 (Ref:1799981) | #50 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,133
|
Quote:
The problem with the MC12 is its overal dims as everyone knows. Maserati have said in the past that too reduce the width, the drivetrain would need to be amended as well IIRC. As for 'would Maserati build a car knowingly outside the rules', then yes if they think the rules would be modified to allow them to race. As Go_For_Pole has stated, FIAT have done this before, and will do it again. |
|||
__________________
Some people will tell you that slow is good - and it may be, on some days - but I am here to tell you that fast is better. H S Thompson 1937 - 2005 |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
French Hillclimb Invitation | pigiron22 | National & Club Racing | 10 | 3 Jan 2005 20:28 |
An Invitation to Car Clubs | Chronicle | Australasian Touring Cars. | 1 | 2 Dec 2004 20:47 |
[FIA GT] FIA-GT at Imola/Herbert in the Mazza | Adam43 | Sportscar & GT Racing | 76 | 6 Sep 2004 20:06 |
Mazza and Bernoldi | Guy Goddard2 | Formula One | 6 | 11 Jan 2003 22:55 |