ALMS is dead!?!?!

[MaxSport]

LeMans has little to do with it. They just take Panoz dollars in exchange for his getting to use a name that means little in America.

The LM 24 Hours was there before Don Panoz found out about it and will be there long after he is gone. The ALMS can die and LM will go on without missing a beat.


KM

[Adam43]

I thought the LM name did mean a lot in America. Afterall we have Cadillac, Corvette, Chrysler...

But then I don't live in America. And like Ayse I live only a few hundred miles from Le Mans.

[paul-collins]

Well, I, for one, think that 7 LMP900 cars, plus 5 LMP675 cars, is a good race, so long as a car that's based on 8 year old designs and development isn't able to challenge for overall wins.

Then again, I'm a Gp.7 nut. Unlimited, baby!

Le Mans has its pockets of fervent fans in North America. All you have to do is look at the (growing) event attendance and you'll see the concept of ALMS has legs.

Maybe it gets denigrated over here because the cars aren't designed to look like billboards?

[MaxSport]

Yes, and I live 20 minutes from the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. I don't claim to have inside news about F-1 because of that.

What I do know a bit about is the attitude of many in sportscar racing here in America concerning the ALMS.

KM

[cybersdorf]

Well, I guess America just doesn't like to be a part of the international scene.

[kdr]

wasn't one of the reasons the elms failed because it was in competition with the fia sportscar and gt series?

does that make the sportscar world too sick..or too healthy?

[Liz]

America doesn't like competition, period. And it doesn't want to understand anything new, particularly if it can't dominate that new thing.

However, no matter what some Americans may say, I do notice a lot of Americans at Le Mans every year and there are a lot of people here at Trois-Rivieres (which I admit is not in America) who go to Le Mans every year too.

We do get so tired of hearing this same "Americans don't like Le Mans and so therefore NOBODY likes Le Mans or ALMS. Because everybody who's anybody is American."

And as far as living near the IRL 500 making you an expert, I have noticed that people who live in that area tend to believe that there is no G*d but Tony George and no church but his bloody speedway. And if that isn't pretence at being an "expert" in what "America Likes" I don't know what is.

[MaxSport]

Again, if everyone hates America so much, what do you care what we do with our motorsports?

Does America tell everyone else to run NASCAR cars? Are Americans upset that the ETCC isn't for Winston Cup cars?

What I said Lez, was that because I lived near IMS that it did not make me an expert on F-1. They have a GP there too in case you had not noticed.


KM

[cybersdorf]

Originally posted by Liz
America doesn't like competition, period.

Maybe they have gone soft?
It's the Cadillac approach I guess - if you don't compete you can't lose. When you don't lose you are the winner. Easy, huh?

[Muzza]

Originally posted by Liz
However, no matter what some Americans may say, I do notice a lot of Americans at Le Mans every year and there are a lot of people here at Trois-Rivieres (which I admit is not in America) who go to Le Mans every year too.

This is incorrect.

Trois-Rivières is in Canada, hence it is in America.

America is a continent, and not a country. The correct assertion would have been “(...) and there are a lot of people here at Trois-Rivières (which I admit is not in the United States)”.

The United States are not America - they are a part of it.

The same is valid for the statement "America does not like competition".

[cybersdorf]

Maybe the whole of America doesn't like competition? Naah, that can't be - there are a couple of Brazilians who are pretty keen

[Liz]

Don't EVER tell a Canadian that Canada is part of America! That is a good way to find yourself looking up at the sky and wondering how you ended up on the ground.

That is a serious comment, guys and gals. Canadians do NOT consider themselves to be "Americans." (North Americans they will grudgingly accept.) "Americans" up here means Residents of the United States.

As far as the Mexicans being "Americans", I will ask the next one I meet and see what he says. But I think they consider themselves "Mexicans" and not "Americans" unless they are living in Los Angeles. Then they are "Mexican-Americans" or "Latinos".

Finally, I have never heard any Brazilian refer to himself as an "American". When the former Gil de Ferran came in 2nd at the Invisible 500 when he was still among us, he did not say A VERY PROUD DAY FOR AMERICA. He said A VERY PROUD DAY FOR BRAZIL .

[rdjones]

Well the ALMS is not daed, ok we do not get live TV over here in Europe, but I like a lot of people tune in the ALMS Radio Web, to listen to the races and everytime I tune in am not disapointed, the ALMS is full of fantastic race and hope the series carrys on for many years to come.........

[cybersdorf]

Originally posted by Liz
As far as the Mexicans being "Americans", I will ask the next one I meet and see what he says.

I like to be in America!
O.K. by me in America!
Ev'rything free in America
For a small fee in America!

[FG1]

Originally posted by cybersdorf


I like to be in America!
O.K. by me in America!
Ev'rything free in America
For a small fee in America!

Those lines are sung by a Puerto Rican character!

FG

[cybersdorf]

Originally posted by FG1
Those lines are sung by a Puerto Rican character!

FG

Are you prejudiced?

[Liz]

Puerto Rico -- my heart's devotion ...
let it sink back in the ocean!
Always the hurricanes blowing!
Always the population growing!
And the bullets streaming.
And the natives screaming ...

I'd call that prejudice by a Puerto Rican character!

Anyway MexSport, we who are not Americans are tired of Americans telling us that only things Americans like can succeed.

Remember what Henry Ford said about the masses.

[FG1]

Originally posted by cybersdorf


Are you prejudiced?

I certainly hope not!! That wasn't my intention. Just that I know that show quite well and as a modern (well 60s) reworking of Romeo and Juliet they use the friction between rival New York gangs instead of the families of Verona. One of the gangs in Puerto Rican! The lines are sung by a Puerto Rican not a Mexican which lends a different slant to the whole story and (in my view) to this thread. However, perhaps that's all a bit too deep!

FG

[cybersdorf]

Originally posted by FG1
I certainly hope not!! That wasn't my intention.

I know - hence the "". I wasn't implying...

[Max Throttle]

Wow, this thread has it all. America bashing, LeMans bashing, GA bashing, semantics issues and even a bit of racial tension just to round it out.

First of all, I'm American and LeMans sports cars are my favorite form of motorsport. I'm also quite fond of stock cars, open wheel cars, touring cars, and bikes of all sorts.

IMHO, Grand Am racing is nothing more than high level club racing. Certainly it's entertaining when a decent field shows up, but there's no denying the fact that the series has difficulty drawing quality entrants and fans to the events. We'll see how the Daytona prototypes changes things, but I have to think most of the high-level privateers and basically all the factories will support the ALMS. Sure, Toyota and Ford will supply engines for the DP cars, and why shouldn't they? Ford already has a modular V8 program underway for drag racing, so expanding that program into sports cars is a natural. The same goes for Toyota - they use the production-based V8 in off-road racing and drag racing, and expanding into sports cars is an easy way to increase the potential customer base for the engine. And it costs very little to companies such as Ford and Toyota.

Will Ford and Toyota underwrite complete cars? No. At the most Ford is subsidizing Multimatic's car in exchange for a body with Focus stying elements.

ALMS, on the other hand, requires a much stronger commitment from any team or manufacturer wanting to participate. It costs more to play with the big boys, but the rewards are much more satisfying. Even so we see Audi, Panoz, Cadillac, and MG actively participating. Audi will be gone next year, but is there any doubt that Bentley will pick up where Audi left off? And what makes anyone think Audi will retire their cars to museums instead of selling them to other privateers like Rahal, or Prost or whomever? I think the ALMS has a decent future, and perhaps we won't see fields that are huge in number over the next couple of years, but the cars that are racing will be state-of-the-art, proper sports racing prototypes.

And Liz, please. It's apparent you have something of an issue with the United States, but to flatly state that we are not interested in any form of competition that we cannot dominate is a bit of a stretch. Were that the case, would we have seen Vipers and Corvettes and Panoz and Cadillacs at LeMans? Or a winter Olympics team for that matter?

We Americans are a lot of things, but afraid of competition is certainly not one of them.

[SL]

Maybe you should have said that you were from the USA rather than 'America'. If you look closly the USA is made up of 9363000 sq km Canada is 9922000 sq km and therefore the bigger in land mass of the two.

Liz was a US national but is now a Canadian by choice.

Simon

[cybersdorf]

Big or small, we bash 'em all!

Originally posted by Max Throttle
...and even a bit of racial tension just to round it out.

???

And what makes anyone think Audi will retire their cars to museums instead of selling them to other privateers like Rahal, or Prost or whomever?

They may, or they may not. It wouldn't be the first time that works cars were sent to the museum after only a short time of active competition, and with plenty of life left in them. BMW, Nissan, Mercedes, the year-old works Corvettes... - you name them.
In the end, we'll see if Audi will sell their cars. Right now, we are just speculating.

[cybersdorf]

Originally posted by SL
Maybe you should have said that you were from the USA rather than 'America'. If you look closly the USA is made up of 9363000 sq km Canada is 9922000 sq km and therefore the bigger in land mass of the two.

...but they are both located on the same continent, aren't they? So, someone from the US is at the same time from America, no?

[SL]

Quote....They may, or they may not. It wouldn't be the first time that works cars were sent to the museum after only a short time of active competition, and with plenty of life left in them. BMW, Nissan, Mercedes, the year-old works Corvettes... - you name them.
In the end, we'll see if Audi will sell their cars. Right now, we are just speculating.


Judging by the Audi 'garage' at Goodwood they had already arranged their museum all three winning chassis with the 24 trophy. I got the impression that those three cars were not for sale, stop.


Quote So, someone from the US is at the same time from America, no?

All the time the USA is wageing war on the rest of the World I doubt that anyone North or South would want to be connected with the term America which though the Hollywood connection is deemed to be the USA. I also fear that this applies applies to us Brits as well at times.

Simon

[cybersdorf]

I also doubt they'll sell the actual Le Mans winning chassis.