2018 Liqui Moly Bathurst 12 Hour, 2-4 Feb - Page 34

johnh875 · 8 Feb 2018, 13:42 (Ref:3799550)

The top of the hill is all public park land so no issues there. Could take the wall back outside Sulman, they did at McPhillamy. A drastic step but gee they have to do something surely.

I was told yesterday that the side of the Mercedes was crushed in almost to the transmission tunnel.

one five five · 9 Feb 2018, 05:22 (Ref:3799774)

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnh875

The top of the hill is all public park land so no issues there. Could take the wall back outside Sulman, they did at McPhillamy. A drastic step but gee they have to do something surely.

They don't move the walls back at Indianapolis? Why do they need to here?

It was a big crash but all the drivers survived, why the need for a drastic change?

fieldodreams79 · 9 Feb 2018, 12:14 (Ref:3799852)

I'm not sure what should be or could be done but it's certainly a good time for a discussion on how things could be better.

one five five · 9 Feb 2018, 12:53 (Ref:3799863)

Quote:

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

I'm not sure what should be or could be done but it's certainly a good time for a discussion on how things could be better.

Was there discussion when James Moffat crashed there in the 1000 last year, or when Scott Pye crashed there in the 2015 1000?

There is a lot of over-reaction going on for an accident that everyone survived and not the first of it's kind in that area of the track.

The cheapest option is to just put a tyre chicane in there, slows everyone down, nobody has to pay for any earth works, and it would make the corner completely safe, which apparently it needs to be.

fieldodreams79 · 9 Feb 2018, 15:06 (Ref:3799926)

Quote:

Originally Posted by one five five

Was there discussion when James Moffat crashed there in the 1000 last year, or when Scott Pye crashed there in the 2015 1000?

There is a lot of over-reaction going on for an accident that everyone survived and not the first of it's kind in that area of the track.

The cheapest option is to just put a tyre chicane in there, slows everyone down, nobody has to pay for any earth works, and it would make the corner completely safe, which apparently it needs to be.

I don't know about discussions regarding past incidents because I've not followed supercars in sometime but to throw your hands up because motor racing is dangerous and everyone survived isn't proactive, imho. They've installed soft walls and Indy, to go back to your previous point, and have made other improvements to the speedway over the years. I'm not advocating for moving the mountain, but it's always time for a rational discussion regarding improving safety and more so after incidents that could've been a lot worse than they were.

I believe the track simply needs a caution light warning system, something that was implemented at American speedways only after Eric Martin was killed at Charlotte during practice in 2002.

bortall · 10 Feb 2018, 03:42 (Ref:3800150)

I can't believe more tracks aren't using the light system like at Winton, clear & bright LED's at each flag point.

**GTRMagic** · 10 Feb 2018, 04:20 (Ref:3800152)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bortall

I can't believe more tracks aren't using the light system like at Winton, clear & bright LED's at each flag point.

How long does it take a Benz GT car to go from 180km/h odd (or more!) to zero?

If it is more time than it takes to travel from the most recent flagpoint before the incident & the incident, a flashing light by the side of the track proper may not be the answer....

Jam3s · 10 Feb 2018, 04:55 (Ref:3800156)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

How long does it take a Benz GT car to go from 180km/h odd (or more!) to zero?

If it is more time than it takes to travel from the most recent flagpoint before the incident & the incident, a flashing light by the side of the track proper may not be the answer....

It doesn't have to go to zero.

venturi · 10 Feb 2018, 06:38 (Ref:3800174)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bortall

I can't believe more tracks aren't using the light system like at Winton, clear & bright LED's at each flag point.

I agree, even Mallala has a light system at every flag point, surely making it easier for drivers to see the flag/light color is a no brainer from a safety perspective, I don't understand the opposition to it from some here.

Umai Naa · 10 Feb 2018, 06:50 (Ref:3800176)

Yeah, I don't get the aversion to upgrading the lights to a higher standard either.

venturi · 10 Feb 2018, 09:57 (Ref:3800200)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

Yeah, I don't get the aversion to upgrading the lights to a higher standard either.

If you are referring to Mallala, the flag point light panels there are flashing LEDs, they are perhaps the most up to date thing at the track lol.

Umai Naa · 10 Feb 2018, 11:14 (Ref:3800226)

Quote:

Originally Posted by venturi

If you are referring to Mallala, the flag point light panels there are flashing LEDs, they are perhaps the most up to date thing at the track lol.

Ok, so we have them at what is pretty much a club circuit these days. But not at a circuit that is held in the same regard as Spa Francorchamps?

275 GTB-4 · 10 Feb 2018, 21:54 (Ref:3800356)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

How long does it take a Benz GT car to go from 180km/h odd (or more!) to zero?

If it is more time than it takes to travel from the most recent flagpoint before the incident & the incident, a flashing light by the side of the track proper may not be the answer....

Agree...I have used lights at Wakefield Park NSW and from an instantaneous reaction and Flaggies point of view, they are far from perfect...and certainly NO panacea to avoid racing incidents!

Things I didn't like (and don't take that as Mick is anti-lights! Just like I am refraining from asking if some contributors here work for electrical companies! :-)...

There can be a delay from the time you push a button to the time when the lights actually flash's (Flags are quicker and can relay the urgency of the situation especially when accompanied by hand signals and body language),

The sighting of the light units can mean that Flaggies have to take there eyes off the track to check whether the lights are ON/OFF...

Back to the mountain...and for our overseas readers, you may not realise that one side of the mount can be raining, bitterly cold, foggy whilst tuther has clear sunshine...making visibility a challenge. Also the fact that the track only gets fully closed about 5 times per year so infrastructure and equipment may be a little basic and easily deployed...

Ad Nauseum

**GTRMagic** · 11 Feb 2018, 23:24 (Ref:3800585)

Back in the day, the AUSCARs on the Thunderdome has flashing lights on the dashboards when a safety car was around...

Umai Naa · 12 Feb 2018, 00:42 (Ref:3800597)

No, no we can't have that.

Drivers should just react to a small piece of cloth that gets shown an eternity after the crash.

Tourer · 12 Feb 2018, 01:12 (Ref:3800600)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Back in the day, the AUSCARs on the Thunderdome has flashing lights on the dashboards when a safety car was around...

Yes they did. Very, very easy to do in a thunderdome situation with direct line of sight to all the cars.

Much harder to do at most racetracks where line of sight often doesn't exist, radio repeaters are needed just to get voice signal through etc.

F1 use an on dash system driven out of the electronics used to run the timing & other systems - they spend millions of dollars per GP to deliver all that infrastructure.

Not saying that lights in the cars should not be considered but it would be very wrong to assume that it can easily be done, particularly at somewhere such as Bathurst due to the topography there.

Umai Naa · 12 Feb 2018, 01:25 (Ref:3800603)

How do they do it at Spa, or the Nordschleife?

Alan52 · 12 Feb 2018, 02:17 (Ref:3800607)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

How do they do it at Spa, or the Nordschleife?

Code 60 on part of course where incident has occurred at Nordschleife.Full course Code 60 at Spa.Resort to safety car at Spa sometimes.
If safety cars can be avoided with a 160 car field on a 22k circuit where the speed differential is greater than Bathurst and there is night time racing then it is possible here.
Before they think about implementing a solution they have to cleanse themselves of the Supercar Safety Car=Entertainment Car mentality that assumes motor racing fans have the concentration span of a stick insect.

275 GTB-4 · 12 Feb 2018, 02:47 (Ref:3800612)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

No, no we can't have that.

Drivers should just react to a small piece of cloth that gets shown an eternity after the crash.

It seems that you are the one with the aversion Umai ...I can assure you that when Flags are used correctly and Drivers are onboard and watching for them they can work extremely well and efficiently...in fact a well Flagged event/race is a thing of beauty to behold, safe and a joy to be a part of for all concerned...

Umai Naa · 12 Feb 2018, 03:42 (Ref:3800615)

I don't have an aversion to progress or risk mitigation.

peckstar · 12 Feb 2018, 04:12 (Ref:3800616)

Quote:

Originally Posted by 275 GTB-4

It seems that you are the one with the aversion Umai ...I can assure you that when Flags are used correctly and Drivers are onboard and watching for them they can work extremely well and efficiently...in fact a well Flagged event/race is a thing of beauty to behold, safe and a joy to be a part of for all concerned...

Most people seem to react well enough to a bit of white paint on a road, would suprise me if they had an issue with a bit of waved cloth when they know its for there benefit

Axeman444 · 12 Feb 2018, 04:23 (Ref:3800618)

Quote:

Originally Posted by 275 GTB-4

It seems that you are the one with the aversion Umai ...I can assure you that when Flags are used correctly and Drivers are onboard and watching for them they can work extremely well and efficiently...in fact a well Flagged event/race is a thing of beauty to behold, safe and a joy to be a part of for all concerned...

So to ask a potentially stupid question, are there an appropriate amount of volunteers available to flag the race?

Noting there are several forum members who flew in from overseas to help, and also there have been several times in the past where simultaneous events have raised concerns there may have been a drain on marshall numbers below what was required per event.

Or is it a case of the marshalls/flaggies, just like the drivers, come out of the woodwork for the big events and there is enough to do the job properly?

275 GTB-4 · 12 Feb 2018, 08:30 (Ref:3800647)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axeman444

So to ask a potentially stupid question, are there an appropriate amount of volunteers available to flag the race?

Noting there are several forum members who flew in from overseas to help, and also there have been several times in the past where simultaneous events have raised concerns there may have been a drain on marshall numbers below what was required per event.

Or is it a case of the marshalls/flaggies, just like the drivers, come out of the woodwork for the big events and there is enough to do the job properly?

No such thing as a stupid question on a Motorsport Forum...

Yes - and related to the race track and number of Officials required to make it all work. Generally speaking, you need Flag Points populated with line of sight between each. Then you need all manner of safety related people such as recovery, medical and fire. You need a team of scrutineers and stewards. You also need a Clerk of Course and other people in Race Control such as Flag Point Communications controller. It soon adds up...

Marshals numbers can decline, especially if they are treated badly at a given event...Calender clashes are just a fact of life, but somethings gotta give with a finite pool of Marshals

Marshals travel all over the world for the love of the sport, personal interest, busman's holidays etc Yes, "Marshals" come out of the woodwork for big events and some for all the wrong reasons

The majority of Motorsport Officials are volunteers, not paid, and when a few are paid underhandedly or offered accommodation etc it can cause dissent.

etc etc

Mike Bell · 12 Feb 2018, 08:41 (Ref:3800648)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

How do they do it at Spa, or the Nordschleife?

Spa has F1 standard panel lights, but as a GP sanctioned circuit it naturally has to. They are very good, and really help where 'flaggies' are not anywhere near the edge of the track. And in the dark, they are superb. As I said many posts ago (maybe on the other thread discussing), they still have to be activated by someone, but I would have thought pressing a button or throwing a switch takes less time than grabbing a flag? Being LED there is no time delay from the electricity being supplied.....

Spa also have the facility to use 2 safety cars should it be necessary for some races.

Umai Naa · 12 Feb 2018, 10:11 (Ref:3800660)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Spa has F1 standard panel lights, but as a GP sanctioned circuit it naturally has to. They are very good, and really help where 'flaggies' are not anywhere near the edge of the track. And in the dark, they are superb. As I said many posts ago (maybe on the other thread discussing), they still have to be activated by someone, but I would have thought pressing a button or throwing a switch takes less time than grabbing a flag? Being LED there is no time delay from the electricity being supplied.....

Spa also have the facility to use 2 safety cars should it be necessary for some races.

I thought as much. Thanks for clarifying.

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