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Old 31 Oct 2005, 11:37 (Ref:1448273)   #1
ian beckett
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Group 5 BMW 320's.

Can anyone help with information no matter how small or seemingly unimportant about the wonderful BMW 320 E21's which raced in the Deutsche Rennsport Meisterschaft(DRM) from 1977 to 1982. These cars were the M3's of its day and many were produced by a variety of teams, had numerous drivers and ever changing colour schemes which make them very difficult to follow. I am helping to try to identify the providence of a number of well used and travelled cars and any help would be more than welcome. Thanks in advance.
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Old 31 Oct 2005, 14:33 (Ref:1448422)   #2
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group 5 bmw 320's.

Oops!! You can tell I am new at this game! I put my name when posting the thread where it said title, instead of the title of the new thread!! I will get the hang of the technology in the end! Please look under Ian Beckett21 for the intended request!
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Old 31 Oct 2005, 14:52 (Ref:1448441)   #3
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Ian, threads merged; hope that's O.K, and welcome back to 10-Tenths!

Look forward to seeing the responses here; have a bit of a soft spot for these cars myself!
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Old 31 Oct 2005, 17:24 (Ref:1448530)   #4
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There was an artist/industrial designer that created the actual shape of one, it was more 'organic' then the factory cars. Anybody know the name of the artist? I remember seeing a book of his designs years ago, and sure enough the car was in there.


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Old 31 Oct 2005, 18:01 (Ref:1448568)   #5
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Alex Elliot is your man.
Posts here sometimes, so try a search.
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Old 1 Nov 2005, 09:36 (Ref:1449164)   #6
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Hi Ian.. One of these cars briefly passed through my hands a few years ago.. Never really got round tro serious research but I did aquire a number of books, period plastic "kits", photos, resin kits, posters, period magazines etc... If you're in the process of building a collection then let me know if you're interested in this sort of thing.. My collection also includes much the same for the Werks CSL Batmobiles..
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Old 1 Nov 2005, 10:04 (Ref:1449196)   #7
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Dear Jeff, I would be extremely interested in anything to do with racing BMW's. Can you let me know some more details? I am trying to unravel the histories of the 320 as I said in the original thread but I also collect scale models,photographs and race reports from that era. I look forward to hearing from you.Cheers Ian.
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Old 1 Nov 2005, 18:55 (Ref:1449662)   #8
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Hi ian!.. I hope you don't regret asking that question!.. I have a pretty big collection !!.. Most of its in storage at the moment, but give me a couple of days / the weekend to dig out some stuff.. I'll take some pics and email them to you.. Rather than bore the forum (?) you might be best to email by PM .. BTW, where are you based? jeff

Last edited by John Turner; 1 Nov 2005 at 19:34. Reason: Jeff, your advice is good but protect your privacy. I'm PMing you!
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Old 1 Nov 2005, 23:48 (Ref:1449957)   #9
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[QUOTE=Jeff Barley]Rather than bore the forum (?) /QUOTE]


Wouldn't be a bore, these cars were interesting and I would also like to know more. We saw a few here in the States, but I know little about their European history.

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Old 2 Nov 2005, 09:04 (Ref:1450164)   #10
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Hi Robert!.. I do have info in my collection covering the US exposure of these cars.. ie Citibank etc etc, plus race programme from the US.. I'll let Ian have first refusal on what might be of interest to him and then let you know in case anything else might be of interest to.. No doubt Ian and you will debating the history of these magnificent cars, but I'll have to bail out of detailed "chats" because of our new arrival !..
Plus I guess we have all suffered from "misinformation" in the past and how critical it is to avoid passing on info that is actually only part factual or is believed to be "the truth".. What I'm trying to say is that I don't want to start reciting "facts" from memory and run the risk of misleading anyone simply because I don't have the time to re-check my facts before I "post them".. However..That said I owned one of the Gp 5 European cars..plus what might have been an ex-Werks CSL.. Plus a werks E30 M3 (One of the Linder Team cars from 1990 DTM)..plus an E36 Supertourer (Swisss series)..plus a ex Gp2 320.. All of which have now been sold, so you can imagine I gathered quite a lot of info on what was a broad collection of BMW's.. Afraid a divorce put paid to that little lot, but boy was it fun!!!
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Old 2 Nov 2005, 14:44 (Ref:1450465)   #11
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Just a quickie,

A club racer called Brian Chatfield successfully ran an ex Peterson 320i in uk special saloons for a number of years in the 1980's. I've got a picture of it hanging off the back of a trailor at Donington in '85 sbut unfortunately haven't got a printer/scanner so i can't post it on here for you!

I don't have any contact details for Brian, but the moderators might have a clue? I would imagine he would be a good source of info on these cars, or try the BARC at Thruxton circuit, he might be a member?
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Old 2 Nov 2005, 18:49 (Ref:1450699)   #12
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Dear Chunterer, thanks for the reply. I think I was at that meeting. Brian Chatfield also ran an ex-Zakspeed M3 in club events and I have a snippet of information in my files that he may also have had an ex_Stuck /Schnitzer 320 at some point in time. Does anyone have a contact for Brian? Anybody know anything about this or the whereabouts of any 320 group 5 cars in the UK? I am a little surprised at how few responses I have had so far. Is there really so little interest out there? Thanks Ian.
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Old 2 Nov 2005, 19:02 (Ref:1450712)   #13
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Dear All, in my haste/keyboard incompetence, I said that Brian Chatfield's M3 was ex-Zakspeed. It was actually ex-Alpina, one of the vivid green cars raced in the DTM in 1987. It is important to correct errors on these forums because comments can soon become fact! Bye..Ian.
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Old 2 Nov 2005, 19:54 (Ref:1450769)   #14
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Ian, I don't think it is a lack of intrest. As I work in Germany, it seems even the Germans don't know where all those 320s are.
Most of the "big ones" are probably tucked away in some garages over here.
Two or three group 5's occasionally appear at smaller races, but who the original drivers were I don't know. (repainted)
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Old 3 Nov 2005, 19:08 (Ref:1451496)   #15
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You're right Eddy V; it's definitely not lack of interest; just lack of knowledge. Also, of course, some of the historic threads tend to have a slower response rate than say (for obvious reasons) the F1 threads.

Ian, don't lose heart; we may still tease some more info. out on this; it might just be slow burner. In the meantime, if you can post any new information on here as it comes to light, it may trigger other memories and responses.
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Old 4 Nov 2005, 01:10 (Ref:1451742)   #16
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With regard to lack of knowledge: I think the first appearance in States was Watkins Glen six hours, with Peterson and Villeneuve, and then a year later the McLaren BMW, the CitiBank car, appeared in IMSA, first with the atmo engine, and soon followed by the Turbo, which McLaren and Busby raced. Was the McLaren connection only in the States, and I believe McLaren developed the Turbo engine? On the Europe cars that may have been Turbo, was that the same engine, or was it developed independently of the McLaren USA version?


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Old 5 Nov 2005, 04:02 (Ref:1452577)   #17
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The first appearance of a 320 turbo in US racing was at Road Atlanta, April 1977, 3rd round of the IMSA series. Hobbs finished 4th o/a in the main race. Its blown 2-litre engine was developed by McLaren Engines in the USA.
Another 2-litre 320 turbo was seen at Brands Hatch and this was built by BMW Motorsport in Munich.
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Old 11 Nov 2005, 09:52 (Ref:1457919)   #18
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Hi!

I've done some digging aroud the subject also: there were 2 Gr5 cars in Finland in late 80's and they were sold to UK. One was works junior team car with 2.0 16v n/a engine and the other was a Schnitser 1.4 8v tbo (later upgrated to 2l tbo). The latter car was for sale about a year ago in UK.

Does this help anyone anyway?
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Old 11 Nov 2005, 10:30 (Ref:1457944)   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlos Guerra
The first appearance of a 320 turbo in US racing was at Road Atlanta, April 1977, 3rd round of the IMSA series. Hobbs finished 4th o/a in the main race. Its blown 2-litre engine was developed by McLaren Engines in the USA.
Another 2-litre 320 turbo was seen at Brands Hatch and this was built by BMW Motorsport in Munich.
Thought 2 x 320 turbos came to Australia for the Frank Gardner/Alan Grice factory backed team - am I right? Ex Hobbs rings a bell.
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Old 11 Nov 2005, 12:11 (Ref:1458039)   #20
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Originally Posted by tzei
Hi!

I've done some digging aroud the subject also: there were 2 Gr5 cars in Finland in late 80's and they were sold to UK. One was works junior team car with 2.0 16v n/a engine and the other was a Schnitser 1.4 8v tbo (later upgrated to 2l tbo). The latter car was for sale about a year ago in UK.

Does this help anyone anyway?
Did Brian Chatfield get one of these over here (UK) ??
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Old 11 Nov 2005, 12:24 (Ref:1458046)   #21
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i was wondering that as well - Brian's car which he raced in Special Saloons had the 2 litrre engine i think - i think he may also have put a Hart F2 engine in it to 'save' or replace the original Beeem unit, but i don't know that for sure.

I remember Brian's car was a sort of Red and Silver livery, but i think he resprayed it?
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Old 11 Nov 2005, 13:21 (Ref:1458086)   #22
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I saw Brian race the car at Thruxton in 1988 (?) in a BTCC supporting Special Saloons race. The car was plain white that day.
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Old 11 Nov 2005, 13:36 (Ref:1458094)   #23
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BMW 320 group 5's.

I would really appreciate it if anyone has pictures of Brian Chatfields car.It was an ex-HAT car from 1977 used in the DRM series by amongst others, Ronnie Peterson. The car was then sold via Tom Walkinshaw to a chap called Gerry Tyack from the Cotswold area He ran the car at the Prescott hillclimb in 1978 still in the colours and sponsorship as it had last raced in Germany. The car then passed to Brian Chatfield who had it from 1984 to 1988 when he used it in Club events. During this time, Chatfield also acquired a second car, supposedly ex-Schnitzer? Does anyone know any more or even the whereabouts of these cars today?
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Old 12 Nov 2005, 17:26 (Ref:1459003)   #24
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Memory fades with age, but Brian definitely ran the car in the Combe GT series for some time and I <i>think</i> it's the one he ran in Thundersaloons when I was doing it in late 80s. I'm sure it was white.

Brian ran, amongst other businesses, a vehicle dismantlers and a 4x4 dealership in the Trowbridge, Wiltshire area. He may still be here, but I haven't heard of him for some time. Try tracking him down via Combe circuit?

I remember watching Peterson in (that?) car in '77 at the Silverstone 6 hours in the rain. Great memories!
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Old 13 Nov 2005, 09:21 (Ref:1459460)   #25
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BMW 320 Group 5.

The car you remember at the Silverstone 6 hours was the Faltz car of Ronnie Peterson and Helmut Kelleners. The car was bright orange and sponsored by Jagermeister. The car brought to Britain by Gerry Tyack and then sold to Brian Chatfield was white with blue panels.

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