So it looks like team orders at McLaren

JeremySmith · 30 May 2001, 05:59 (Ref:98648)

As much as Ron Dennis has told us that TEAM ORDERS are not used as part of the McLaren strategy..Mika Hakkinen seems ready to help David Coulthard in his quest for the WDC...Do you consider this unfair or?

DNQ · 30 May 2001, 06:23 (Ref:98656)

I don't think McLaren will ever use Ferrari style team orders. ie. Make the no. 2 let the no. 1 driver through. If anything, McLaren will give DC use of spare car, newest modificiation and developments, and that sort of thing. I just can't imagine Mika being told to let David through.

Wrex · 30 May 2001, 06:27 (Ref:98657)

NO, absolutely not!! I don't think there is anything wrong with Ferrari doing it either.

We have to be realistic, Rubino & Mika chances for the championship are only slightly higher than mine & AMoffats (& mine are still better than his

) There is way too much money & effort that goes into these teams to loose a championship over 1 or two points because they failed to do their job as team managers and make the tough decisions.

It sucks, I know, but it has to happen.

Quote:

Ron Dennis has told us that TEAM ORDERS are not used as part of the McLaren strategy

And this is total garbage anyway. Watch the first time its a McLaren One-Two in Mika's favour and see what happens.

It's more of Uncle Ron's Hypocracy.

Nuvolari · 30 May 2001, 06:54 (Ref:98660)

If DC is in the thick of the championship fight -- and Mika's out of it -- why wouldn't Uncle Ron ask him to pull over?

Especially if the Constructor's title's at stake.

JeremySmith · 30 May 2001, 08:33 (Ref:98675)

Would you not consider this just another "Driver Aid" Do they realy NEED help to win a WDC?

Valve Bounce · 30 May 2001, 10:18 (Ref:98726)

It is not a question of pulling over. It is asking the #2 driver to impede the progess of the opposition driver a la Eddie Irvine against Jacques. Slow the other guy down, block him on the track, make sure that there is no chance of any overtaking manouvre while the lead car is in the pits. Some of you seem to have very short memories.

Like do a Bernoldi on the guy, while your #1 driver races off into the distance.

Liz · 30 May 2001, 11:36 (Ref:98773)

Erm, doesn't Mika have to actually participate in a race in order to have any influence on DC's chances?

I think Mika will do what he can, though, and it will not be a blatant Affirmative Action Program like Ferrari has. But I agree that a true champion should not demand or need points handed to him "on a tray" as DC says himself.

Wrex · 30 May 2001, 12:02 (Ref:98804)

Quote:

Originally posted by Liz
I think Mika will do what he can, though, and it will not be a blatant Affirmative Action Program like Ferrari has.

How else will it be done? Break problem, slow pitstop or, hang on, I know, stalling on the grid

Quote:

But I agree that a true champion should not demand or need points handed to him "on a tray" as DC says himself.

But he'll take them just the same won't he

Valve Bounce · 30 May 2001, 12:07 (Ref:98807)

Quote:

Originally posted by Liz
Erm, doesn't Mika have to actually participate in a race in order to have any influence on DC's chances?

So!!! I knew it!! I knew it!!

You had your aliens nullify the launch control on DC's car and the diff on Mika's car, didn't you?

Nuvolari · 30 May 2001, 12:15 (Ref:98816)

A champion -- and that will include DC (if he's ever in the position) -- is grateful for whatever points he can get, handed to him or not.

**Bononi** · 30 May 2001, 13:30 (Ref:98858)

If Mika wins the next 6 races will he help DC be a champion ???

Gt_R · 30 May 2001, 15:04 (Ref:98889)

Com'on stop kidding yourselves...team order play a part in all teams

Ferrari clearly uses them
Mclaren uses them too (but discretely)
Benetton uses them (hey, Fisi got the superior car all year bar one last season)
Jaguar uses them (Irvine is clear no.1, look at their cars in Monaco)
BAR uses them (JV is always the preferred one)

the problem lies here...Ferrari team orders are more hyped about as they are championship contenders...and are the legend team...the other teams are not much bothered about team orders because they couldnt even score a point...*duh*

And the diff between Ferrari and Mclaren is, one is honest enough to admit their preferrence, the other prefer to act all sportsmen, but are actuallly wolves in sheeps clothings....

boyko petrov · 30 May 2001, 16:19 (Ref:98911)

Team orders in McLaren-blablabla..... This is a team which is not possible to be compared with the italian *****es Ferrari. Every pilot must have the same chances as the others, because this is the most expensive sport in the world and we don't need to watch people like Jean Todd.
I can only advise him to make a team in the Wrestling Federation...It will be very comfortable for him....
Congratulations Schumacher for your second place in Austria!!!!!!!!!

EERO · 30 May 2001, 16:54 (Ref:98924)

Welcome to our friendly forum, Boyka. May I just advise you that we don't cotton to some of the language in your previous post. This is a friendly all ages forum and we try to be carful about HOW we say things.

Despite DC's now huge lead over Hakkinen, I doubt Dennis will ask Mika to role over and play dead. However, Mika knows that DC contributed in no small measure to his two WDC's and I think the Finn will gladly reciprocate.

JeremySmith · 30 May 2001, 18:22 (Ref:98955)

GT_R

I completely agree with you..I don't care for team orders,as I feel that it distracts from a fair fight, "may the best man" on the day win..IMO drivers and teams should gain points on their own merits.. But I have given this subject lot's of thought,and have come to the conclusion that MONEY is what we are really talking about here...The teams spend so much each year and are constantly under pressure from their sponsors to perform that they will to do anything to get the job done.

Ferrari is no different that any other team on the grid..They are just being more upfront about their policies. As fans of Formula one it's hard for us to accept this,and some of us perceive this as "cheating" in a way..

IMO All the teams would use team orders in a companionship battle..The fact that the focus is on Ferrari and McLaren at the moment makes it easier for us to point the finger.

Liz · 30 May 2001, 20:23 (Ref:99009)

"Companionship battle"? Is this like fighting to be his new best friend? (Or perhaps a spell-check hiccup ...

)

Perhaps it's a matter of definition. Of course one would expect that in cases where one teammate has 40 points and one has 4 points, the lower placed teammate would be deprived of the best bits and given the second pit stop, etc. This isn't exactly team orders, though. What I'd call Team Orders is what Ferrari and BAR have, that is a designated No. 1 and No. 2, which would not change no matter how many points No. 2 had accumulated ... and in fact No. 2 would be required to hand over points to No. 1 if the balance got too much in No. 2's favour.

P.S. to VB: the aliens apologize.

JeremySmith · 30 May 2001, 20:35 (Ref:99013)

ROFLMAO ..Liz Help!!.. I noticed that after it was too late to edit "Companionship" Could you fix it for me please..I don't know Liz you could be right in what you are saying..I am thinking of taking up knitting instead of watching F1..

**Bononi** · 30 May 2001, 22:28 (Ref:99065)

Thanks Liz. I was in trouble trying to figure it out.

Anyway is a good word Jersound !

JeremySmith · 30 May 2001, 23:14 (Ref:99080)

I agree Bononi!

canadianfan · 31 May 2001, 01:34 (Ref:99125)

I hate team orders. It's not a sportsmanlike conduct; it's demeaning to the driver and the sport. If #2 can pass, he should be able to do it. If MS needed to to end 2nd on the last race and RB was first, i don't care, RB should not let him pass him. F1 isn't a team sport like football. You either bust your balls being #1, or you just end up 2.

JeremySmith · 31 May 2001, 02:46 (Ref:99151)

Yes Canadianfan..I don't care for them either. But it is a reality that we have to except..The more I think about it the more I realise that it they are money driven decisions to keep the likes of Acer and Malboro happy..That is MHO of course..Correct me if you think that I am wrong..And let's try not to focus on Michael Schumacher...All the teams would exercise team orders,if they thought it would have a positive effect on the team. We saw team orders in play at Monaco with Arrows twice...first to let Jos Vastappen by Bernoldi and then for Bernoldi to block Couthard..

**Bononi** · 31 May 2001, 12:22 (Ref:99277)

Unfortunately team orders exists because drivers are part of a team, and the logic of football differs because is the team that gains points not the player. But imagine a player that is about to score a goal, and the teammate just beside him is the best scorer of the championship together with another team's player, if that teammate passes the ball to him he will finish first in the championship. He can do it, just to help his teammate and would that be right ?

Tristan · 31 May 2001, 13:34 (Ref:99300)

I can't really add anything here to what others have said. Team orders are an necessary evil, and, unfortunatly, from now on they're going to HAVE to come into play at McL.

Liz · 31 May 2001, 14:35 (Ref:99317)

I don't think it was "Team Orders" that ordered Bernoldi to 'block' (i.e. not roll over and play dead for) Coultard, because that wasn't going to do Jos any good. (Unless it was team orders from Ferrari?)

**Bononi** · 31 May 2001, 22:56 (Ref:99524)

Yes, Tristan. We have all said.

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