IMSA Race 2017 - Rolex Daytona 24

[Speed-King]

From Twitter:

Spencer Pumpelly 19 hours ago

That was the 5 car's fault. He was 2 wide fair and square and he didn't act like it. #Rolex24

Once again @BeauxBarfield gets it right!

Ryan Eversley ‏19 hours ago

Thats 100% the correct call! @IMSA

That's two guys who I have lots of respect for and who are definitely not known as guys who drive dirty. Add the BS move by the 31 on the penultimate restart and I know quite firmly which "camp" I am a part of.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Jameson

How come Ford should have had an advantage? That would mean BoP was too good for them.

It was definitely not correct for the BMW that was at times 1-2 seconds off (best lap time 0,8s off the fastest). This is very poor BoP in a class that competitive. It doesn't matter what model they run because IMSA has regulated their boost pressure and weight so it's all in IMSA's hands in this case.

Also, Corvette being quickest in the pits simply means they have a too big refueling restrictor because that is what determines the pitstop times (tires and driver change are easily done within refueling time, so the crew's work doesn't matter hear like it does in some other series).

The way you're looking at BoP is that every car should be equal at everything, which is not the way I'm looking at it. Corvette has a small advantage in the pits (only really notable when they all pit together under FCY), but it isn't as large as what it appeared. Ford screwed themselves by having all 4 cars pitting together as they regularly blocked each other in. So that pit time isn't anywhere near representative.

Ford should have the best car because it IS the best. I don't like Ford, but it's had the most money and testing of all the new cars. Strictly speaking, GTLM is not a BoP class, despite IMSA and the ACO going that way. So Ford SHOULD be the best. But they should also stop blocking each other in during pit stops.

[Maelochs]

Another fairytale ending and a race to match … drama, weather, no one hurt, lots of tension every class undecided down to the last stint … and for all the “racing fans” (using the vernacular meaning, “NASCAR fans” is what we’d call them) a bump- and-run finish is the norm, so no problem for anyone but us, here.

Ricky should have set it up for a lap or two ... I think he had the pace to actually make the pass …. But as noted, Albuquerque did move down … and though Taylor was only 1/3 past, anyone could see what trying to close the door at that point would lead to.

I would have preferred WTR to win a different way, but I can stomach this. And as noted “racing fans” probably would rather have seen this. Only those effete “sportscar” fans don’t like contact. You know, those guys even use math and stuff …

People who crave the old days when one car won by many laps … in a way, Ford did that here. Let’s not hear any BoP crap about it.

VisitFL---Outstanding. I don’t think anyone expected them to have both pace and reliability.

Also, huge props to Acura. they came pretty close, and actually led for a while, but damage and disease (mechanical ills) sidelined them just before the finish. Still, they showed a Lot for a first race, and a rather long race, at that.

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

From Twitter:

That's two guys who I have lots of respect for and who are definitely not known as guys who drive dirty. Add the BS move by the 31 on the penultimate restart and I know quite firmly which "camp" I am a part of.

These are fair points from two racing drivers.

At the time, I was really upset that it came down to those 2 moves. After sleeping on it, both were gamesmanship, with one being a calculated attempt to balk someone intentionally and the other was taking a calculated risk at high speed late in the race. I'd give more leniency to the latter now, unless the 31 had issues on the restart. Anymore on that?

[Maelochs]

Originally Posted by wdave0

Otherwise - glad I watched from home, not at the track.

Actually it might have been a better race from trackside than on TV.

Originally Posted by broadrun96

No but TERRIBLE lines through corners do and a few times they were downright terrible. When they hit the marks the team was FAST. But hey keep drinking the koolaid and getting mad like IMSA has personally offended you. I actually look and see hey Daytona is its own unique event and its BOP. If you want more power don't get an engine that can't get its parts right. Rebellion was constantly off pace because the engine and drive by wire couldn't get along all day. VFR had moments of speed, often in the rain overnight when they caught back up. Oh wait more df equals rain speed, no never heard such a thing. They lost pace when it dried and the Caddys got faster. But hey watching the actual race and following it would be too damn hard for some who'd rather pretend they are smarter than IMSA and race teams when they wouldn't know which end of a wrench to use. I'm done with this *****ing bs

Broadrun (and LagunaSeca4Life) seem to be pretty reasonable and clear-headed in this debate.

Cadillac Bop at this race will Always be an issue, because there is no retest after the final BoP change … and race, practice, and qualifying set-ups are not identical, and the teams essentially do their own test-drives.

I didn’t see a lot of problems … maybe the Caddys were a little too fast, but they also had the fewest problems. Gibson couldn’t meet demand for its new motor, and didn’t do enough testing of all related systems. That’s a shame.

Apparently Cadillac did.

I do think Cadillac BoP might have been a little optimistic, but I am not about to get out the tinfoil hat and start assuming plots. Sebring testing in February.

One thing I liked about this race … some teams decided to just survive ‘til the end, but AXR (Mustang/Whelen) and WTR raced every minute of it. GTLM and GTD acted like every lap offered a trophy. I Hven’t wathed the whole broadcast so Idon’t know if the TV showed how hard everyone was pushing, or just how abominable conditions were.

The rain wasn’t really as hard as claimed, but there was os little grip … it seemed the cars were loafing … but then the bck end would step out, or the car would just skid off at a tangent, and the driver would be all fast hands to save it ... lap after lap. Pretty good show.

[MoMedic9019]

If you think the move on the 10 was clean, I urge you to pay attention to the WTR pit box after the hit.

They got away with one. I'm not saying I support it, or think it was wrong.... it might have just been a bit optimistic.

[10TENTHS]

Rebellion lost 11 laps or so to mechanical issues, so you can't really get a good judge of their performance here.

As for the complaining about the #10, I've seen worse in BTCC (and from other cars in this race) go unpenalized. There were GT cars cutting the bus stop and not being penalized as well.

[MaskedRacer]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

Another fairytale ending and a race to match … drama, weather, no one hurt, lots of tension every class undecided down to the last stint … and for all the “racing fans” (using the vernacular meaning, “NASCAR fans” is what we’d call them) a bump- and-run finish is the norm, so no problem for anyone but us, here.

Ricky should have set it up for a lap or two ... I think he had the pace to actually make the pass …. But as noted, Albuquerque did move down … and though Taylor was only 1/3 past, anyone could see what trying to close the door at that point would lead to.

I would have preferred WTR to win a different way, but I can stomach this. And as noted “racing fans” probably would rather have seen this. Only those effete “sportscar” fans don’t like contact. You know, those guys even use math and stuff …

People who crave the old days when one car won by many laps … in a way, Ford did that here. Let’s not hear any BoP crap about it.

VisitFL---Outstanding. I don’t think anyone expected them to have both pace and reliability.

Also, huge props to Acura. they came pretty close, and actually led for a while, but damage and disease (mechanical ills) sidelined them just before the finish. Still, they showed a Lot for a first race, and a rather long race, at that.

VisitFlorida did not have the pace at all. They stayed on the lead lap through the full course yellows. But they were reliable and clean. And with the way the rules work. They took advantage of it. Great on them.

[MaskedRacer]

Originally Posted by canamman

I know there were a lot of Lambo's in the field
but I really wish I got a nickel for every time
I saw one in a spin cycle during the race.

PC's - I have seen a few good races with them over the years,
but this maybe a long year. It appears we are now in a diminishing
return territory.

I cant remember the number but I know I saw a prototype (not PC)
getting in the way of the GTLM battle toward the end. Just
looked odd at the moment.

Jeremy Shaw made a mention that he will be Chump racing very soon.
I will look for him at Road Atlanta this coming Saturday when they kick off
the season with a 14 hour enduro.

Even in the dry the GTLM cars run very well on the infield and bus stop sections compared to the DPI cars. Certainly LMPC. If anything Daytona shows that this category needs to have more horsepower in the cars.

[RWill2073]

Put me in the camp of wanting the series to leave the bop for prototype alone. I would rather out too prototype class be above the semi spec secondary prototype class of wec, putting it firmly in first-rate status. Want to run a global p2? Ok, speed them up or give them bigger fuel tanks to let them run longer stints. Please don't slow down a promising thing now. And it's hard to argue against caddy being the most prepared and well funded factory entry. It was deserved by them. Mazda is mazda and even Scott Sharp said he was surprised they were still running at the end and didn't get their second car till just before the roar. One of the teams using the global p2 had to revert to a testing engine die to pack of spares. None of that sounds like it should be competitive with Cadillac right now. Lets leave it alone and let it play out.

The end was frustrating, probably mostly for me because I wanted risi and the 5 axr to win. Couple things on the Taylor pass: it was ambitious, but not terrible. It did look like Albuquerque gave a little room there. I think it He hadn't have spun and had stayed close to taylor, maybe the call would have been to give it back and to at it again. It would have looked awkward to have Taylor slow down to let Albuquerque catch back up after spinning to pass him, as he was a few seconds back after spinning, and it would have set a precedent that would be hard to follow later. What if third place was 3-4 seconds behind them? You gonna have Taylor slow down to back them both up into third place? Would just be hard to orchestrate. Also, I don't think they wanted to have the winner changed after the fact like a few years ago, as that just leaves an empty feeling all around. Add those up with the 31 block and a hand wringing no call is a reasonable response.

I thoroughly enjoyed the race. Enjoyed chatting on here during it as well. It was a proper endurance race to some degree, the only exception being the cautions that broke it up too often. Really though, I give them credit for trying to avoid throwing the caution at times. They easily could have when the bmw was stuck in the fast lane of pit lane, to ensure the safety of the crew going tonhelo move him. They routinely waited a long time to let a car get going under their own power before throwing it, it just looked box because on multiple occasions, mostly with pc's, right after finally throwing the caution, right as the safety vehicle would reach the car, it would get going on its own again. Grrrrr.......

I'm just gonna say it. The Daytona track sucks. It is a pretty poor excuse for a road course. But the magnitude of the event makes home or it. If this was a regular 2:40 race, it would probably be pretty poor.

If I'm a gtlm team, I'm feeling pretty good that ford didn't do better than it did. I know they won, but it really shouldn't have been that close. That being said, bop seems about right there as well. They're the closest to a prototype inn the class, the smallest, can pick up a draft better than the rest, so they should be the best there. Bmw could be helped with bop, but really, should they be? It really is about where it should be for the type of car it is and it's competition.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by 10TENTHS

As for the complaining about the #10, I've seen worse in BTCC (and from other cars in this race) go unpenalized. There were GT cars cutting the bus stop and not being penalized as well.

There was no penalty for cutting the bus stop so long as you didn't gain an advantage.

[JLGarcia]

I didn't get to watch live, so I'm just catching up on things. I don't have an opinion one way or the other on the finish, but I know that, as quoted above, drivers whom I respect had no real issues with it.

What I do suspect is that if IMSA had penalized WTR for the move, many of the same people complaining that Taylor raced dirty would instead be complaining that "OF COURSE they fixed it so the NASCRAP House Team won!" so Barfield was damned either way.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by 10TENTHS

Rebellion lost 11 laps or so to mechanical issues, so you can't really get a good judge of their performance here.

As for the complaining about the #10, I've seen worse in BTCC (and from other cars in this race) go unpenalized. There were GT cars cutting the bus stop and not being penalized as well.

Yeah, but BTCC is hardly the height of professionalism is it? They decide the grid by picking numbers out of the hat and then reverse it. IMSA is meant to be a professional top end sportscar series. If the best comparison that anyone can come up with is BTCC, then it doesn't paint IMSA in a good light.

WTR thought the move was going to lose them the race. Wayne Taylor said the move was dumb and wasn't happy with it. They basically admitted the crime, and the prosecution chose to not press charges after guilt was admitted. Barmy system IMSA runs, but hey.

[Rodger Davies]

Sets a terrible precedent for the new cars too; they can hardly penalise blatant shoving off the track for the rest of the season now.

I agree that I have no interest in watching a 'sport' like BTCC.

[Akrapovic]

I'll be honest, if there's nothing else on I'll happily stick some BTCC on. But I'm well aware it's crap. The only thing Jason Plato needs to round off the comedy villain character is a twiddly moustache and Mutley in the car with him. It's a joke of a series, but it's hilarious if you don't take it seriously. I don't think that's what IMSA for should be aiming for.

[10TENTHS]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Yeah, but BTCC is hardly the height of professionalism is it? They decide the grid by picking numbers out of the hat and then reverse it. IMSA is meant to be a professional top end sportscar series. If the best comparison that anyone can come up with is BTCC, then it doesn't paint IMSA in a good light.

Well it's popular here in England, so that's why I mentioned it.

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

WTR thought the move was going to lose them the race. Wayne Taylor said the move was dumb and wasn't happy with it. They basically admitted the crime, and the prosecution chose to not press charges after guilt was admitted. Barmy system IMSA runs, but hey.

I haven't said anything about agreeing with the officiating as is. On the other hand, I'd rather not see it turn into F1 where results are decided the next day (or even a few days later like with Vettel/Verstappen).

AXR were using Conway to block so I don't really sympathize too much when it comes to "dirty tactics".

[Dani Filth]

from what I understood while watchinig the imsa.tv coverage, the true LMP2 cars have only 2 DF setups homologated and must use one of those.
any ideea what the teams used for Daytona(official) and if there was a difference between teams using the same chassis.

sorry if it has already been discussed

[WolfsburgRS]

I think David Hobbs said it best:

"No good shutting the barn door when the horse is halfway through"

https://twitter.com/MrDavidHobbs/sta...88721643536387

At the end of the day Ricky went for a gap, Albuquerque slammed the door and he made the contact with the 10, not the other way around. At the time the impact was made the 10 was going the same speed or nearly so as the 5. Once the 10 was there albuquerque could have maintained the same steering input, they could have gone 2 wide around and fought it out that way. If ricky had been the one to open up the wheel and nudge the 5 it would be a different story I think. It was an aggressive move, but fair.

[MaskedRacer]

Its great that this race thread has so many posts. I hope everybody can comment on here for every IMSA race this year. By CTMP and VIR, the threads gets rather small.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Dani Filth

from what I understood while watchinig the imsa.tv coverage, the true LMP2 cars have only 2 DF setups homologated and must use one of those.
any ideea what the teams used for Daytona(official) and if there was a difference between teams using the same chassis.

sorry if it has already been discussed

I believe the DPi cars are in the same boat aero wise. Only 2 DF setups, but within each of those I think there is still a bit of aero work you are allowed to do to setup the car.

Originally Posted by WolfsburgRS

I think David Hobbs said it best:

"No good shutting the barn door when the horse is halfway through"

https://twitter.com/MrDavidHobbs/sta...88721643536387

That is brilliant!

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

People who crave the old days when one car won by many laps … in a way, Ford did that here. Let’s not hear any BoP crap about it.

Actually, if people really like this, then we would have heard how great the PC race was

[TF110]

I didn't enjoy the race as much as I thought I would. To me, it was average as a whole. Too many cautions, PC again, crappy tires ruining good cars chances, a two-tier prototype level of competition and questionable officiating brought it down for me.

If I were to rate the race, I'd give it a 6, maybe a 7 just because GTE/LM and some close racing in GTD. As cool as it is to have actual prototypes instead of the mishmash of p2 and dp, it's clear that the Dallara Caddys are the fastest and probably most reliable. Until the other dpi's get on top of their own cars, the electrical system is fixed and Gibson can run at it's max, the Cadillac's will be the only winners. I don't think Sebring will be any different, sadly. Hopefully I am wrong!

[fieldodreams79]

I enjoyed it well enough. It's a classic in a classic location. Sure the roval and cautions take away from things but it was overall decent enough imho.

I've always preferred Sebring so that's where I'll be in about 1.5 months.

Originally Posted by WolfsburgRS

I think David Hobbs said it best:

"No good shutting the barn door when the horse is halfway through"

https://twitter.com/MrDavidHobbs/sta...88721643536387

At the end of the day Ricky went for a gap, Albuquerque slammed the door and he made the contact with the 10, not the other way around. At the time the impact was made the 10 was going the same speed or nearly so as the 5. Once the 10 was there albuquerque could have maintained the same steering input, they could have gone 2 wide around and fought it out that way. If ricky had been the one to open up the wheel and nudge the 5 it would be a different story I think. It was an aggressive move, but fair.

Love Hobbsisms! I agree with you and have certianly softened my original outrage, even though at times, horses can be in the wrong doors at the wrong times!

[carbsmith]

Originally Posted by RWill2073

Want to run a global p2? Ok, speed them up or give them bigger fuel tanks to let them run longer stints.

It doesn't work that way. The FIA spec cars are locked in with a single set of rules and a development freeze. There will be no such thing as an "IMSA spec" LMP2 like there has been in recent years, either they properly balance DPi to the same performance level or no one will bring LMP2 cars.

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by Dani Filth

from what I understood while watchinig the imsa.tv coverage, the true LMP2 cars have only 2 DF setups homologated and must use one of those.
any ideea what the teams used for Daytona(official) and if there was a difference between teams using the same chassis.

sorry if it has already been discussed

I am interested in that myself. Daytona is an interesting track, despite all the criticism. The runs on the banking mandate a low drag setup, the 'bus stop' and the infield require a different aero and chassis setup. Turn One used to be a really difficult corner-arrive at high speed on banking, brake and transition to a flat. It used to have a grass (quickly dirt) verge. Lower class cars had to deal with that and higher class cars booming into their mirrors and line. The infield kink is something to sneeze at with a low DownForce setup and the spring rates the banking demand, plus you need to set yourself up for the slowest corner on the course, the braking zone of which arrives as you are tracking out of the kink. If you have traffic there, slower/faster, it becomes complicated. When you setup for Daytona, you setup for traffic, day and night, and wet and dry.

That damn place is deceptive in many regards.