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Old 5 Sep 2012, 19:18 (Ref:3131528)   #1
medius
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medius should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridmedius should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Black flag/red flag

Hiya guys and girls, quick question. While watching some racing footage of British F3 in the 1989 season, there were a few race stoppages and the black flag was the flag shown to stop the race. Being a 1985 child with motorsporty parents, I'd watch the racing but not understand the flag rules until I was something like 8 or 9, and I've forgotten that the black flag was the race stoppage flag. When did it change to red? And why? Any particular catalyst for the change?

Here's the video in question, 1m10 in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVYnnxWMXWg
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Old 5 Sep 2012, 19:21 (Ref:3131533)   #2
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I think the change was to ensure consistency between MSA and FIA regulations.
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Old 5 Sep 2012, 19:41 (Ref:3131541)   #3
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was changed either 90 or 91 - at the time I seem to remember that the reason given was greater visibility at the flag points.
It was a red flag at the start line - then blacks all the way round.
but I'm sure an old flaggie will be along with the truth soon enough
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Old 5 Sep 2012, 20:13 (Ref:3131565)   #4
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in New Zealand we only used red flag to end races... during one of the Formula 5000 events it was explained to the visiting drivers especially those from the USA and Canada not to stop on track and bring the cars in the pit lane... black flags were not even part of our bag on station.

in the US, we get both black and red flags, we use what race control calls for.
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Old 6 Sep 2012, 07:23 (Ref:3131814)   #5
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Originally Posted by Bodysnatcher View Post
was changed either 90 or 91 - at the time I seem to remember that the reason given was greater visibility at the flag points.
It was a red flag at the start line - then blacks all the way round.
but I'm sure an old flaggie will be along with the truth soon enough
I can't confirm the year but the reason for the change is correct!

Prior to the use of the black flag at marshals' posts it was even more confusing! When the red flag went out at the startline each post displayed crossed yellow and oil flags (yes they were called oil flags at that time).

Does that make me an old flaggie???!!!
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Old 6 Sep 2012, 11:42 (Ref:3131948)   #6
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JimW should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridJimW should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridJimW should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridJimW should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Blue Book 1990
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J.1.10.5 . . . stopped by the simultaneous display of the Black flag at all Flag Marshalling Posts. (This signal may be supplemented by red 'lollipop' discs.)
Blue Book 1991
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J.1.10.5 Competitors will be warned that the race has been stopped by the simultaneous display of the Red flag at all Flag Marshalling Posts.
Red lollipop discs Don't remember that and certainly never remember seeing any.

Regards

Jim
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Old 6 Sep 2012, 11:50 (Ref:3131956)   #7
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Red lollipop discs Don't remember that and certainly never remember seeing any.
You need one of these for "change of surface"

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Old 6 Sep 2012, 11:50 (Ref:3131957)   #8
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Blue Book 1990


Blue Book 1991


Red lollipop discs Don't remember that and certainly never remember seeing any.

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Haha, you must have one helluvan attic Jim. You've kept blue books from back then?!!!
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Old 6 Sep 2012, 11:52 (Ref:3131959)   #9
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Haha, you must have one helluvan attic Jim. You've kept blue books from back then?!!!
1990 is nothing, I bet Jim has the original Azurite Book!
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Old 6 Sep 2012, 12:00 (Ref:3131972)   #10
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yeah, they still use black flag on all stations in the USA. However, rules vary between clubs and even series. In SCCA club races black on all stations means proceed to pits, red: stop racing, stop by flag station. Then, Midwestern Council does not use red on stations with the exception of the bridge and they use black and yellow to stop race, and it means 'no overtaking, proceed to pits'. And SCCA pro racing uses red in the same way as FIA rules (AFAIK). I wish they adopt the FIA rules everywhere as what is now is extremely confusing, not only for marshals :-)
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Old 6 Sep 2012, 12:45 (Ref:3132001)   #11
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JimW should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridJimW should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridJimW should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridJimW should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
1980 appears to be the oldest I can find, but then I have not completed indexing* all my books yet. That may correspond to when rescue crews started to get a free BB. My yellow book collection runs from 1970 to 1983 but I seem to recall the price got silly.

Regards

Jim


(*Since you ask - Readerware and 2500 captured so far. Now moving to ones with no barcode and then no ISBN which slows things up.)
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